- #1
Martini
- 13
- 0
Let's say that every being in the universe, including me, believed that I could float up into the sky like a soap bubble, would I?
Who would be there to say I would not?
Who would be there to say I would not?
If you can't float up in the sky, what does it matter what someone or all the people believed? Or are you saying that if everyone was crazy and dreaming/hallucinating something that fundamentally did not exist or was not as it manifested to our minds, this would become a sort of consentual reality indistinguishable from what we'd regard as true reality?Martini said:Let's say that every being in the universe, including me, believed that I could float up into the sky like a soap bubble, would I?
Who would be there to say I would not?
WaveJumper said:Or are you saying that if everyone was crazy and dreaming/hallucinating something that fundamentally did not exist or was not as it manifested to our minds, this would become a sort of consentual reality indistinguishable from what we'd regard as true reality?
.
Martini said:Yes, every single being was hallucinating, or something of that sort.
Martini said:Let's say that every being in the universe, including me, believed that I could float up into the sky like a soap bubble, would I?
Who would be there to say I would not?
Martini said:Yes, every single being was hallucinating, or something of that sort.
There is a missing element in your logic.Martini said:Let's say that every being in the universe, including me, believed that I could float up into the sky like a soap bubble, would I?
Who would be there to say I would not?
Unfortunately, this doesn't empower you to float either.Let's say that every being in the universe, including me, believed that I did float up into the sky like a soap bubble, did I?
Who would be there to say I did not?
Sorry! said:I don't think that this makes it true (objectively) that you did float or even that you could ever float.
Sorry! said:it isn't truth (objectively) though.
Then what is truth and does it even exist? A whole other thread.
Agreed, our objectivity is subjective. It would have been hilarious if it wasn't sad.DaveC426913 said:I tihnk that's the point of thread. Is there any such thing as 'objectivity' beyond 'what everyone in the universe thinks'.
Martini said:Let's say that every being in the universe, including me, believed that I could float up into the sky like a soap bubble, would I?
Who would be there to say I would not?
Yes, I understood the point of the OP.DaveC426913 said:I tihnk that's the point of thread. Is there any such thing as 'objectivity' beyond 'what everyone in the universe thinks'.
Not really. Yours is a fair bit more simplistic, and is quite answerable with some conditions placed on it.Martini said:I just realized something.
This question is kind of similar to the age old question "If a tree falls in a forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?"
DaveC426913 said:Not really. Yours is a fair bit more simplistic, and is quite answerable with some conditions placed on it.
Itr is only ambiguous semantically: "what does one mean by 'sound'?" Once one determines what sound is, the answer follows directly.
The tree makes vibrations in the air. They become sounds when they are interpreted by a creature.
14? Jeez. I wish I was participating in physics discussions when I was 14! I think I was still playing with GI Joes!Martini said:I am only 14 :p
Yes, if we would be talking about the third man argument., but that would go into infinite.DaveC426913 said:I tihnk that's the point of thread. Is there any such thing as 'objectivity' beyond 'what everyone in the universe thinks'.
I just realized something.
This question is kind of similar to the age old question "If a tree falls in a forest, and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a sound?"
Sound is not the point. What is important in this metaphor is about reality in the sense of that-which-exists-with-or-without-conscious-awareness-of-its-existence. True existence is that what you see and do not see. It does not matter if conscious wasn't there to hear the tree fall. The tree was there, then it fell. How do I know this? Walking along a road I saw the same tree that fell. Deduction does the rest. The point is it does not even have to prove it's own existence. It exists and that's it.DaveC said:Not really. Yours is a fair bit more simplistic, and is quite answerable with some conditions placed on it.
Itr is only ambiguous semantically: "what does one mean by 'sound'?" Once one determines what sound is, the answer follows directly.
The tree makes vibrations in the air. They become sounds when they are interpreted by a creature.
Sound is not the point. What is important in this metaphor is about reality in the sense of that-which-exists-with-or-without-conscious-awareness-of-its-existence. True existence is that what you see and do not see. It does not matter if conscious wasn't there to hear the tree fall. The tree was there, then it fell. How do I know this? Walking along a road I saw the same tree that fell. Deduction does the rest. The point is it does not even have to prove it's own existence. It exists and that's it.
what if you were blind ?
Or even better, the tree starts dancing and I can't see it! That would suck.ValenceE said:what if you were blind ?
VE
Martini said:Hooray for dancing trees!
But back to the topic :]
do you believe if every being in the universe believed I was floating like a soap bubble, would it be construed as reality?
Martini said:Hooray for dancing trees!
But back to the topic :]
do you believe if every being in the universe believed I was floating like a soap bubble, would it be construed as reality?
bleedblue1234 said:Well it may be contrued as reality to a certain subset or viewing population, just like many people believe religion is reality and there are many others who believe it doesn't constitute reality, but by definition reality is:
1. the state or quality of being real.
2. resemblance to what is real.
3. a real thing or fact.
therefore its not real, and therefore it is not reality? I don't see the point in your argument as it makes no logical sense that an entire population of peoples could believe you were floating in the sky in a magic bubble...
Sorry! said:The example is far fetched. But hey, do you believe that people can walk on water? Can you PROVE that it has NEVER happened?
It reminds me of the novel 1984, where they can change history to be whatever they need it to be. It then becomes REAL because they population has been trained to just accept these changes to history (what used to be reality).
Of course it's not the fundamental reality, but who cares, seeing as we can only know the world through perception anyways.
Willowz said:I think that if every conscious being believed just hard enough that pigs can fly, just hard enough. Then pigs would fly.
In this context, "true existence" refers to the idea that something is considered real or exists in reality because it is perceived by all minds. It suggests that the perception and recognition of something by multiple individuals is what makes it truly exist.
There is no scientific evidence that directly supports this concept. However, it aligns with certain theories in physics, such as the observer effect, which suggests that the act of observation can affect the behavior of particles. It also aligns with the idea of collective consciousness, which is a concept studied in fields such as psychology and sociology.
Yes, there are objections to this concept. Some philosophers argue that the existence of something is not dependent on its perception by minds. They believe that things can exist independently of our perception or recognition of them. Additionally, this concept raises questions about the existence of things that are not perceived by all minds, such as subatomic particles or distant galaxies.
This concept suggests that reality is not solely based on objective facts, but also on the collective perception and recognition of those facts by minds. It challenges the traditional idea of reality as something that exists independently of our perception. Instead, it suggests that reality is shaped by our perception and understanding of it.
Yes, this concept can be applied to everyday life in various ways. For example, it can be used to understand how our perceptions and beliefs shape our reality. It can also be applied to social and cultural phenomena, as our collective perception and understanding of certain ideas or concepts can influence their existence and impact on society.