Trying to derive a group velocity equation?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the group velocity equation, specifically its inverse, in the context of wave mechanics and optics. The original poster is focused on the relationship between the refractive index, wavelength, and group velocity, employing various mathematical derivatives and relationships.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the group velocity equation using derivatives of the refractive index and relationships between wavelength and angular frequency. They express frustration over circular reasoning in their calculations and seek clarification on their approach.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's calculations, questioning the accuracy of derivative applications and suggesting re-evaluation of certain expressions. Some guidance has been offered regarding the differentiation process, but no consensus or resolution has been reached yet.

Contextual Notes

The original poster mentions spending significant time on the problem and expresses concern about potentially overcomplicating the derivation. There is an indication of confusion regarding the relationships between the variables involved, particularly in the context of the derivatives taken.

jeebs
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hi,
I am trying to derive the group velocity equation (actually its inverse):

\frac{1}{v_g} = \frac{1}{c}(n(\lambda) - \lambda\frac{dn}{d\lambda})
where n is the refractive index and depends on the light's wavelength.

I have started by saying that if v_g = \frac{\partial\omega}{\partial k} then I can do \frac{dk}{d\omega} = \frac{dk}{d\lambda}\frac{d\lambda}{d\omega}.

I then say that k=\frac{2\pi}{\lambda} and \omega=\frac{2\pi c}{n\lambda}, also that k=\frac{n\omega}{c} .

When I've done the differentiation I have been using chain rules and product rules.

After messing around with this stuff all bloody weekend and calculating every possible derivative a dozen times I am certain that (among other things):

\frac{d\lambda}{d\omega} = 2\pi c(\frac{-1}{n^2\omega^2} - \frac{1}{n^2\omega}\frac{dn}{d\omega})

\frac{dk}{d\omega} = \frac{4\pi^2c}{\lambda^2n^2\omega^2}(n + \omega\frac{dn}{d\omega})

\frac{dn}{d\omega} = c(\frac{1}{\omega}\frac{dk}{d\omega} - \frac{k}{\omega^2})

\frac{dk}{d\lambda} = \frac{-2\pi}{k^2}

there are more things I have calculated but I always seem to be going in circles, working out things that end up being in terms of just another "dx/dy".

after going through about 40 trees'worth of paper the closest I have got with this is to find that \frac{1}{v_g} = \frac{1}{c}(n - (\frac{4\pi^2 c}{n^2\omega^2\lambda}\frac{d\omega}{d\lambda} + \frac{4\pi^2 c}{n^3\omega\lambda}\frac{dn}{d\lambda})\frac{dn}{d\lambda})

and to finish I'd need to show that the bit in the brackets is equal to \lambda but I just can't. the fact that this is such a simple looking equation and that I have managed to spend over 12 hours in total tearing my hair out over this tells me I am probably overcomplicating things. Can anyone save my sanity here? I know this will be some simple trick that I'll feel like an idiot for not seeing.

thanks.
 
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Double check how you are taking those derivatives. For instance,

\frac{\partial}{\partial x} \left[ \alpha f(x) \beta g(x) \right] = \alpha \beta \left ( \frac{\partial f}{\partial x}g(x)+\frac{\partial g}{\partial x}f(x) \right )

where alpha and beta are constants
 
i'm pretty sure that's the way I was doing them.
 
You say that

k=\frac{n\omega}{c} \implies \frac{dk}{d\omega}=\frac{1}{c} \left ( n + \omega \frac{dn}{d\omega} \right)

yet also that

<br /> \frac{dk}{d\omega} = \frac{4\pi^2c}{\lambda^2n^2\omega^2}(n + \omega\frac{dn}{d\omega}) <br />
 
Notice that

\frac{1}{v_g} = \frac{dk}{d\omega} = \frac{d}{d\omega} \frac{n\omega}{c} = \frac{1}{c} \left ( n + \omega \frac{dn}{d\omega} \right)

\omega \frac{dn}{d\omega} = \omega \frac{dn}{d\lambda} \frac{d \lambda}{d\omega}

now calculate this last term and you should be done.
 

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