News Turkey Coup Attempt: Latest Updates

[OmCheeto]

I'm not, since it is at this point still just a myth/conspiracy theory (popular or not):

http://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/rand-pauls-bin-laden-claim-is-urban-myth/

Perhaps "Bin Laden" is the new codename for "mujahideen".
Operation Cyclone: strategic meddling, at its finest.

Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding ... rose to $630 million per year in 1987.​

Anyways, trying to get back on topic.
This just in, from the Twitterverse:

Lotte LeichtVerified account ‏@LotteLeicht1 July 19, 2016
#Turkey

purge widens to education sector: 1,500 university deans ordered to resign, 15,000 education staff suspended​

I may not be the most educated person when it comes to history, but this kind of reminds me of stories of the Soviet Union, under Stalin.
The Great Purge

I'll have to read it later.

[edit] According to the CPI inflation calculator, $630 million = $1.34 billion, today.

 

[russ_watters]

Perhaps "Bin Laden" is the new codename for "mujahideen".

Yes, it is my perception that the myth grew from that conflagration.

 

[1oldman2]

I may not be the most educated person when it comes to history, but this kind of reminds me of stories of the Soviet Union, under Stalin.

Have you had the pleasure of reading "Stalin and his hangmen" ?

 

[OmCheeto]

Have you had the pleasure of reading "Stalin and his hangmen" ?

Nope.
I trudged through the most boring or books, back when I was 16: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany, by Shirer.
It ruined me for life.

 

[1oldman2]

Nope.
I trudged through the most boring or books, back when I was 16: The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany, by Shirer.
It ruined me for life.

This is different, not at all boring, I highly recommend it.

 

[OmCheeto]

This is different, not at all boring, I highly recommend it.

hmmm...

Amazon.com intros:

Stalin and His Hangmen: The Tyrant and Those Who Killed for Him Paperback – December 13, 2005
Stalin did not act alone. The mass executions, the mock trials, the betrayals and purges, the jailings and secret torture that ravaged the Soviet Union during the three decades of Stalin’s dictatorship, were the result of a tight network of trusted henchmen (and women), spies, psychopaths, and thugs. At the top of this pyramid of terror sat five indispensable hangmen who presided over the various incarnations of Stalin’s secret police. Now, in his harrowing new book, Donald Rayfield probes the lives, the minds, the twisted careers, and the unpunished crimes of Stalin’s loyal assassins.​

Stalin was in power in the 30's +/- 15 years, so the book is a 70 year retrospective.

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich: A History of Nazi Germany Reissue Edition [first published in 1960]
Hailed as “one of the most important works of history of our time” (The New York Times), this definitive chronicle of Hitler’s rise to power is back in hardcover with a new introductory essay by Ron Rosenbaum (Explaining Hitler and How the End Begins) commemorating the fiftieth anniversary of its National Book Award win.​

Published only 15 years after the fall of the Reich.

I suppose, as a 16 year old, I would not have recognized the psychopathic nature of Hitler's fellow henchmen, in Shirer's book.

Perhaps I should read both books.

Odds are though, that I won't, as there's a bit going on right now.

 

[1oldman2]

Perhaps I should read both books.

I've never read "the rise and fall" (I'll read yours if you'll read mine)

 

[OmCheeto]

I've never read "the rise and fall" (I'll read yours if you'll read mine)

Nope.
After so many years, you start to understand general human nature.
I'm more interested in this new "Turkish" story, as there are lots of new plot twists.

The internet, for one.

And back to the news:

Szilard Locsei ‏@locsei July 19, 2016

#Turkey revokes licenses of 24 radio and television stations as #SultanErdogan goes #FullDictator​

https://aboutcroatia.net/news/world/turkey-revokes-licenses-24-radio-and-television-stations-29740… via https://twitter.com/about_croatia​

hmmm...
Only about 5% of the planet actively uses Twitter. And #Turkey is only generating a tweet per second from my last check.
I wonder what the other 95% of the armchair quarterbacks are thinking about this situation?
Or, are they all chasing Pokemon, and just don't care?

 

[1oldman2]

After so many years, you start to understand general human nature.

this applies to...

are they all chasing Pokemon, and just don't care?

 

[mheslep]

Thanks for the thoughtful response

...
The thing is that military dictatorship has been the ruling paradigm for so long and it never led to anything good.

Agreed.

Political Islam feeds on its oppression.

Agreed. Oppression does not only come from military juntas though; see the oppressive theocracies in Iran and now with ISIS

I know very few people who have actually read "Milestones" or are aware of it, but many people revere Sayyid Qutb for standing against Nasser and losing his life in the process. If you take this victimhood from them they're left with nothing.

Wright's "Looming Tower" which I've read begins with Qutb's journey through post WWII America, follows his return to Egypt and briefly discusses Milestones, the book Nasser used to kill him. I don't follow the relevance of Qutb to democracy at this point; yes Qutb spoke against the oppression under Nasser, formed the Brothers and started another revolution, but Qutb had zero use for Western anything when he came home, including democracy.

I was actually happy when Morsi ended up in power (though of course I couldn't bare to actually vote for him). I thought finally after 80 years of spreading their venom they'll be allowed to destroy their legacy. And this is exactly what happened. He won with 51% of the vote (only because he was running against Mubarak's mate and last PM, Morsi only got about 26% in the first round) and in 1 year he all but lost the public support, he was only left with the most loyal Muslim Brotherhood supporters. I just hoped this democratic experiment would survive to the next election for this to materialise.

I'm American; I was also happy at the time that Morsi won (a USC PhD no less).

Democracy corrects itself. You vote for a terrible group (which at that point was the only only alternative people really knew) and then learn from your choice. I mean let people get a taste of theocracy. Let him actually try to enforce a dress code on women, or ban music. There were huge protests at even hints/rumours of more benign rulings.

I agree self-correction is part of a working democracy; it replaces revolution in the right circumstances. But democracy does not always self-correct. Not always. Apparently there must also be a sense of self-rule and pluralism in place among the populace first, something along the lines of what Tocqueville described.

... There is a role for the military, and that is to make sure that when the time comes for the Islamists to lose the elections, they'll actually p#ss off peacefully.

That role presupposes a military that somehow remains devoted to pluralism and the rule of law despite the government doing otherwise, and not one run by radical Islamists as in Iran, a project Morsi had underway. A Turkish version of this is now underway by Erdogan, which is interesting and ... keeps us barely on topic.

 

[OmCheeto]

The Wikileaks are available if anyone is interested.

Search the AKP email database

Unfortunately, they are mostly in Turkish.

Note to non-Turkish speakers who might be interested:

My Chrome browser would not offer to translate the documents, so I manually cut and paste them into "Google Translate".
I later discovered that you can right-click on the emails, and Chrome gives you an option there to translate them.
The option is NOT in the Chrome menu bar, that I could find. ​

I did a search for "Gulen", and came up with 137 documents.
Most appear to be harvested from: Turkiye-icin-el-ele@googlegroups.com
The few Turkish documents I translated were uninteresting.
Only one was in English, and was somewhat interesting, for the US-Turkish recent historical perspective:

[Turkish Forum - E Turkiyeyiz Biz] Newly Released U.S. State Dept. Human Rights Report for 2015 Slams Turkey & Egypt
From: erdal@turkishnews.com
To: eturkiyeyizbiz@googlegroups.com, turkish-forum-advisory-board@googlegroups.com
Date: 2016-04-14 11:25
Subject: [Turkish Forum - E Turkiyeyiz Biz] Newly Released U.S. State Dept. Human Rights Report for 2015 Slams Turkey & Egypt​

The document appears to contain nothing that was not already publicly accessible. [U.S. State Dept re: Turkey]
But does, as the subject line states, slam Turkey's pre-coup abuses of freedom in the country.

It's very long, so I just skimmed it.
Interesting highlights can be found by searching for "Gulen".

example; "A number of media outlets affiliated with the Fethullah Gulen movement were dropped from digital media platforms (cable providers) and five outlets were taken under the control of government-appointed trustees. Representatives of Gulenist and some liberal media outlets were denied access to official events and in some cases, denied press accreditation."

 

[EnumaElish]

Alleged coup leader: Gen. Akin Ozturk, member of the supreme military council, previously head of the Turkish AF. Used to be military intelligence at some point. He was apprehended, questioned, in custody. In his testimony he rejected the accusation that he was the leader or part of the coup, or knew anything about it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akın_Öztürk

There are posts that it's divine justice that "he who bombed Kurds" is now in handcuffs, appears physically injured as he is presented to the press.

In press photos his ear appears covered with bandage. There appears to be scars on his face.

 

[jim hardy]

It's very long, so I just skimmed it.
Interesting highlights can be found by searching for "Gulen".

Thanks OM i skimmed it too, as well as the state dept link.

here's hoping things remain calm at Incirlik
the folks they arrested were their own
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-turkey-coup-20160717-snap-story.html

Though the base reopened for air operations Sunday after a 24-hour closure, official media reported the arrest of the top Turkish military official at Incirlik, Gen. Bekir Ercan Van.

i guess our h-bombs are okay

Home > News > Article Display
Pentagon press secretary comments on situations in Turkey
By Peter Cook, Pentagon Press Secretary / Published July 17, 2016PRINT | E-MAIL

"After close coordination with our Turkish allies, they have reopened their airspace to military aircraft. As a result, counter-ISIL coalition air operations at all air bases in Turkey have resumed. U.S. facilities at Incirlik are still operating on internal power sources, but we hope to restore commercial power soon. Base operations have not been affected."

"don't take your guns to town, boy.. son." _{johnny cash
thanks OCR}

old jim

 

[mheslep]

...

i guess our h-bombs are okay"don't take your guns to town, boy..." _{johnny cash}

The US supposedly has nuclear weapons abroad in five countries. A coup prone Turkey should not be one of them IMO.

 

[OCR]

"don't take your guns to town, boy..." _{johnny cash}

old jim

Aww heck old jim, don't mean to be picky here, but it's actually ... don't take your guns to town, son ... sorry...

 

[EnumaElish]

On the day (or maybe the next day) the alleged coup leader was apprehended, newspapers published his "confession." A day later same "news sources" retracted it.

The alleged coup (once proven in court of law I guess) will have destroyed any chain-of-command responsibility emanating from the actions of the coup participants, for their higher-ups. Significantly, the government and the president. Anything nasty the coup participants may have done will have become the responsibilty of "rouge army units," not the rest of the army or any part of the establishment.

In other news, Turkey has declared a state of emergency for 3 months. AFAIK it can be renewed indefinitely. Simply put: fewer freedoms. Boosts executive powers, reduces judicial oversight. All residents have to carry an id card at all times and present it to authorities, who can now demand to see people's "papers" at random times and places. Police empowered to shoot on sight upon crowds, including demonstrations.

 

[EnumaElish]

Alleged coup plotter Gen. Adem Huduti also rejects accusations.

Lawywers have refused to represent alleged plotters.

What kind of a rotten judicial system fails to assign lawyers to a defendant? I mean, lawyers are found to defend (alleged) serial killers, rapists, molesters; but not coup plotters?

 

[jim hardy]

"rouge army units

Rouge army ? Do they suspect Redneck or Russian involvement?

 

[OmCheeto]

Rouge army ? Do they suspect Redneck or Russian involvement?

You forgot Khmer Rouge.
From the context, I think it should have been "rogue".
Ironic misspelling, to say the least.

 

[EnumaElish]

Wierd consequences of the coup attempt:

* After the coup attempt all armed forces were put under lockdown. The Kurdish separatist guerillas (the PKK, considered terrorists by Turkey) have reportedly had an almost free reign since then.

* Army units used to donate leftover food to animal shelters. With the lockdown in effect, they have not been able to do so. Apparently as a result, food supplies in some shelters have become critically low.

* Soldiers that had been discharged a few years ago on the basis of accusations of plotting a coup against the government (the so-called Sledgehammer case) are being given posts recently emptied by discharges of military personnel as part of the most recent alleged coup attempt.¹
_________________
¹Alleged plotters of the most recent coup (the so-called Gulenists) have been accused of manufacturing evidence against defendants in the previous alleged coup attempt. The attempted coup of a few days ago would not only sever the chain-of-command responsibility for criminal liability (if any) by the Turkish military; it would also sever the judicial/administrative chain of responsibility from potential accusations of prosecutorial malfeasance such as "manufactured evidence" in the previous coup cases. However, the attempted coup would not necessarily sever the chain of responsibility for possible criminal activities committed during Turkish government's fervent support of the Syrian rebels. Ridding of that responsibility might require an even grander scapegoat, and may include parts of the Turkish intelligence services and/or the Gazze Flotilla crowd. Stay tuned for a few years, folks.

Caveat emptor - any and all of my posts on this topic are pure and rank speculation.

 

[EnumaElish]

You forgot Khmer Rouge.
From the context, I think it should have been "rogue".
Ironic misspelling, to say the least.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Dr Wu]

It appears that the Putinisation of Turkey is now under way. . .

 

[jim hardy]

It appears that the Putinisation of Turkey is now under way. . .

Tug-of-War or Chess?
if he can pull Turkey away from NATO i suppose it's a good chess move
I can understand Putin being nervous about NATO missile silos in the area, and our H-bombs
we didn't want theirs in Cuba, either
Russia's ambassador said just that to Charlie Rose a year or two ago, i happened to tune in and thought "He does have a point" .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Poland-ship-missiles-region-say-experts.html

The Russians could invade Poland 'overnight' and the US needs to do more to beef up Nato defences in the area and send more missiles to the region to deter Moscow.

A 25-page document by the US-based http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/images/publications/Arming_for_Deterrence_web_0719.pdf think thank says Nato needs to do more to 'counter a resurgent Russia'.

Anybody else have an opinion on this piece ? Not too long a read.
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/images/publications/Arming_for_Deterrence_web_0719.pdf

THE THREAT FROM RUSSIA
Russian President Vladimir Putin’s regime does
not disguise its hostility toward the West and its
main institutions—NATO and the European Union
(EU). Western values such as democracy, pluralism,
transparency, human rights, freedoms, and the rule
of law are antithetical to a kleptocratic, authoritarian
regime. The Kremlin has, therefore, viewed with
undisguised alarm both recent “color revolutions”
in its neighborhood and the uprisings of the Arab
Spring.
Fearing that this is what is in store for Russia, the
Kremlin has accused the West of instigating or even
“weaponizing” those upheavals. Putin has set out to
aggressively delegitimize, discredit, and undermine
Western policies and institutions as well as the
entire post-Cold War norms-based security order.
For all intents and purposes, Moscow has declared
the West its chief enemy, as explicitly stated in
Russia’s revised National Security Strategy signed
late last year by President Vladimir Putin.

see last page, authors

Gen. Sir Richard Shirreff was NATO’s Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe from 2011 to 2014. He is a partner at Strategia Worldwide Ltd. He recently published
“2017: War with Russia.”

Maciej Olex-Szczytowski is an independent business adviser, specializing in Defense. In 2011-12 he was Special Economic Adviser to Poland’s Foreign Minister, Radoslaw Sikorski. Prior to this, he served as CEO of Poland’s Military Property Agency.

 

[EnumaElish]

In related news:

US's top general denies report that ret. US general was involved in Turkey’s coup attempt http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nID=102136&NewsCatID=358

Amnesty International reports on July 24 that alleged coup participants' human rights were being violated while in custody:

The spate of high profile suicides follows an Amnesty International report that 10,000 detained Turkish troops have been raped, starved and left without water for days.

The group claim that the detainees, who were imprisoned after the failed military coup, are being held in stables and sports halls.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14953...d-and-beaten-in-unofficial-detention-centres/

Then yesterday the pro-govt. Yeni Safak claims Amnesty Int. is "on the side of the coup" *because* it defended the rights of the [alleged] coup participants.

http://m.yenisafak.com/gundem/af-orgutu-darbe-safinda-2499535 (in Turkish)

The Wikipedia entry on YS is a must-read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeni_Şafak

 

[EnumaElish]

Turkish mainstream columnist provides the 11-point lowdown on Gulen: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=449&nID=102173&NewsCatID=548