Two impossible crossproduct problems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around two vector-related problems involving cross products and vector identities. The first problem asks for a proof of a specific identity involving the magnitudes of vectors and their dot product, while the second problem seeks a vector that satisfies a cross product condition without being equal to a given vector. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses frustration with geometry and seeks a simpler proof for the identity |UxV|² = |U|² + |V|² - (U·V)² without extensive algebra.
  • Another participant suggests using geometric identities involving the angle between vectors to rewrite U·V and |U×V|, referencing the identity cos²x + sin²x = 1.
  • For the second problem, one participant proposes choosing a vector C as B + V, where V is a vector that is parallel to A, ensuring that A x V = 0.
  • There is a discussion about the dependency of the components of vector C on each other, with one participant noting the complexity of the algebra involved.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the use of trigonometric identities, with one noting they have not yet learned about the sine and cosine ratio.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to solve the problems, with multiple strategies and uncertainties expressed regarding the use of algebra and geometry.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention limitations in their current mathematical knowledge, particularly regarding trigonometric identities, which may affect their ability to engage with the problems fully.

Nikitin
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Hi, I really need some help here.. Vectors remind me why I hate geomtery.

problem 1: Prove that |UxV|2 = |U|2+|V|2 - (U*V)2

How can I prove that these two are equal without spending 1 hour using algebra? Maybe there is some geometry quirk that I'm not seeing?

problem 2: We have two vectors A=[1,1,1] and B=[1,2,3]

Find a vector C so that AxB = AxC, where C =! B.

I tried using algebra on this but I just ended up with crazy expressions for Cx, Cy and Cz where each of them were dependent on the others.

So.. Is there some other way? All help is appreciated =)
 
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I would also like to point out that I haven't learned yet about things like the ratio between sine(x) and cosine(x), so pls if possible tell me this can be solved by simple algebra or by using geometry?
 
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For the second one, since it just asks for a vector C not equal to B, the easiest thing to do would be to choose C = B + V, where V is some vector such that A x V = 0. Do you know what kinds of vectors have that property?
 
Nikitin said:
problem 1: Prove that |UxV|2 = |U|2+|V|2 - (U*V)2

How can I prove that these two are equal without spending 1 hour using algebra? Maybe there is some geometry quirk that I'm not seeing?
Do you know how to rewrite U·V and |U×V| in terms of |U|, |V| and the angle between U and V. You need to use those identities, and also [itex]\cos^2x+\sin^2x=1[/itex].
 
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Mute said:
For the second one, since it just asks for a vector C not equal to B, the easiest thing to do would be to choose C = B + V, where V is some vector such that A x V = 0. Do you know what kinds of vectors have that property?

ahh, so AxC = Ax(B + V) = AxB + AxV where AxV=0.

Very cunning. Yes, V equals any vector which is pararell with A. Thank you 4 the help!

Fredrik said:
Do you know how to rewrite U·V and |U×V| in terms of |U|, |V| and the angle between U and V. You need to use those identities, and also [itex]\cos^2x+\sin^2x=1[/itex].

Sure, |U|2*|V|2 - |U|2*|V|2*cos(x)2= |U|2*|V|2(1-cos(x)2)=|U|2*|V|2(sine(x)2)=|UxV|2

correct? tho we haven't learned about the 1=cos(x)^2 + sine(x)^2 trick in my maths class so maybe there is another way to prove it?

thank u very much 4 the help anyways
 
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