Uncertainty principle,examining the «principle» part

• ShayanJ
In summary, the conversation discusses the use of light in experiments to understand the path of electrons, which ultimately causes a disturbance and changes the results. This is compared to unsuccessful attempts to design a heat engine with 100% efficiency and the proposal of the Kelvin-Planck statement of the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Uncertainty is proposed as a result of these experiments, leading to the formulation of quantum mechanics and the uncertainty principle. The conversation also explores the possibility of deriving the minimum for the product of uncertainties using methods other than Fourier transformation and non-commuting operators. Finally, the fundamental nature of the uncertainty principle is discussed, as well as its relationship to wave properties and non-commutativity of operators.
ShayanJ
Gold Member
In some experiments like Heisenberg's microscope and Davisson–Germer experiment,we see that by using light to understand the actual path of electrons,the electrons are disturbed and so the result is changed(in the second case,the interference pattern is replaced by the distribution of classical particles.)
I want to know,can we compare this experiments to unsuccessful attempts for designing a heat engine with 100% efficiency and therefor proposing the kelvin-planck statement of the 2nd law of thermodynamics?
Can we say that uncertainty was proposed as a result of such experiments and then QM was formulated somehow that it contains uncertainty principles and so the derivations of it can't be accounted as proofs?(I mean derivations using Fourier transformation and non-commuting operators)
So is there another way besides them to derive the minimum for the product of uncertainties?
If a method of «watching the electrons»is proposed that does not use photons,there is a possibility of its rejection.So why do we say that its fundamental to the nature?
Thanks

Last edited:
But Heisenberg proposed his uncertainty relations unaware of the schrodinger's work so he couldn't have wave functions in mind.
Also why do we call it «principle» if there are proofs via wave properties or non-commutativity of operators?

1. What is the Uncertainty Principle?

The Uncertainty Principle is a fundamental concept in quantum mechanics, first proposed by Werner Heisenberg in 1927. It states that there is a limit to how precisely we can know certain properties of a particle at the same time, such as its position and momentum.

2. How does the Uncertainty Principle impact scientific research?

The Uncertainty Principle has significant implications for scientific research, particularly in the field of quantum mechanics. It means that there will always be some level of uncertainty or probability associated with the measurements we make on particles, making it impossible to have a complete understanding of their behavior.

3. Can the Uncertainty Principle be proven experimentally?

Yes, the Uncertainty Principle has been tested and proven through numerous experiments, including the famous double-slit experiment. These experiments demonstrate that the act of measuring one property of a particle will inevitably affect the other property, leading to uncertainty.

4. Are there any exceptions to the Uncertainty Principle?

The Uncertainty Principle is a fundamental principle of quantum mechanics and there are no known exceptions to it. However, in certain situations, the uncertainty can be reduced by using more precise measurement techniques or by working with larger particles.

5. How does the Uncertainty Principle impact our understanding of the physical world?

The Uncertainty Principle challenges our traditional understanding of the physical world, where we expect everything to have a definite position and momentum. It suggests that at a subatomic level, particles may not have well-defined properties, and instead, exist in a state of probability. This has led to the development of new theories and interpretations of the quantum world.

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