Uncertainty principle, virtual particle pairs and energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between the uncertainty principle, virtual particle pairs, and energy conservation in quantum mechanics. Participants explore how virtual particles can spontaneously appear and annihilate, and the implications for energy conservation during these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how the uncertainty principle permits the creation and annihilation of virtual particle pairs, questioning the energy implications when these particles annihilate and whether they emit a photon with energy equal to 2mc².
  • Another participant asserts that energy conservation is an absolute law, explaining that when a virtual photon is emitted, the energy and momentum are temporarily lost by the emitting particle, and are regained upon reabsorption.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the term "off the mass shell," indicating difficulty in understanding how virtual particles can exist without the energy they possess returning to zero.
  • Another participant elaborates on the mass-energy relationship for free and virtual particles, emphasizing that energy and momentum are conserved exactly during interactions, even if individual energies are uncertain.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the interpretation of energy conservation in the context of virtual particles and the uncertainty principle. Some participants maintain that energy conservation holds strictly, while others express uncertainty about how energy can fluctuate without violating conservation laws.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the implications of the uncertainty principle on energy fluctuations and the nature of virtual particles, as well as the definitions of terms like "off the mass shell." The discussion does not reach a consensus on these points.

Darkmisc
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I'm a bit confused about how the uncertainty principle allows for the spontaneous creation and annihilation of virtual particle pairs.

I can understand that energy conservation can be violated for a very short time as per delta_e*delta_t > h_bar/2. However, when the virtual particle pair annihilates, does it result in the emission of a photon with e = 2mc^2?

Does this photon propagate like a normal photon? By what mechanism does it disappear again into zero energy so that energy conservation is not violated permanently?


Thanks
 
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Darkmisc, You understand wrong. Energy conservation is not like a bank account, it's an absolute law of nature. It holds true exactly, at every moment.

When a virtual photon is emitted by an electron, any energy or momentum carried by the photon is temporarily lost by the electron. They are both "off the mass shell", or virtual. When the photon is reabsorbed, again energy conservation holds, and the electron regains the total energy that it had originally.
 
Bill_K said:
Darkmisc, You understand wrong. Energy conservation is not like a bank account, it's an absolute law of nature. It holds true exactly, at every moment.

When a virtual photon is emitted by an electron, any energy or momentum carried by the photon is temporarily lost by the electron. They are both "off the mass shell", or virtual. When the photon is reabsorbed, again energy conservation holds, and the electron regains the total energy that it had originally.


I still don't get it. What does "off the mass shell" mean?

The trouble I'm having is with the idea that virtual particle pairs can appear without the final outcome being that the energy they instantaneously possessed returns to zero.

The way I understand the uncertainty principle as it relates to energy is that you cannot know with absolute certainty that the energy will be zero. I'm picturing the energy in the space always being very close to zero, but fluctuating thereabouts.

Do you mean that energy conversation holds because when the photon is absorbed, it lowers the momentum of some other particle?
 
For any free particle there is a relationship E2 = p2c2 + m2c4 where E is energy, p is the momentum and m is the rest mass. For example when a particle is sitting still, p = 0 and the relationship reduces to E = mc2. On the other hand for a massless particle like a photon, m = 0 and the relationship reduces to E = pc. This relationship between E and p is called the "mass shell."

On the other hand when a particle is virtual, the relationship does not necessarily hold. It is "off the mass shell." When particles interact, energy and momentum are conserved. Not just approximately - exactly. If an electron with energy E and momentum p emits a photon with energy E1 and momentum p1, after the collision the electron will now have energy E - E1 and momentum p - p1. Yes there is uncertainty about what E1 and P1 will be, but there is no uncertainty about the conservation. The sum for electron and photon will always be the same. After the photon is reabsorbed, the electron will again have energy E and momentum p. Total energy does not fluctuate. Ever.
 

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