Understanding Beta Particles and Their Role in Radioactivity | Diagram Included

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    Beta Particles
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on beta particles and their role in radioactivity, specifically focusing on the energy distribution of beta particles, the involvement of neutrinos, and the mechanics of beta decay. Participants explore theoretical concepts, diagrams, and the implications of these processes in nuclear physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the kinetic energy carried by beta particles and how it relates to the energy levels of electrons, questioning why there are different energy levels for electrons in beta decay.
  • There is mention of energy distributions of beta particles, with references to statistical distributions like Poisson or Gaussian, suggesting that equal probabilities exist for different energy levels.
  • Participants raise questions about the role of neutrinos in energy distribution, with some asserting that neutrinos take energy and momentum during decay processes.
  • There are inquiries about the mechanics of beta decay, including how neutrons convert to protons and the implications for atomic structure, as well as the concept of half-life in radioactive decay.
  • Some participants clarify that the weak interaction is responsible for the processes involved in beta decay, including the transformation of quarks and the emission of particles.
  • Questions arise regarding the simultaneous occurrence of alpha, beta, and gamma decay, with clarifications that these processes are generally mutually exclusive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the energy distribution of beta particles and the role of neutrinos, indicating that there is no consensus on several aspects of the discussion, particularly regarding the mechanics of energy transfer and the implications of decay processes.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific definitions and assumptions about particle interactions and energy distributions, which remain unresolved in the discussion. The relationship between kinetic energy and the particles involved in beta decay is also a point of contention.

  • #61
Physicsissuef said:
so for one beta particle there may have infinite number of M points, right?


No!

a Beta particle = an electron; same thing but different name!

Each electron will only have ONE value of energy (M).

you must learn what a beta particle is.

Physicsissuef said:
The two points are for same number of paricles... So it means that the probability of measuring two particles, the particles are same, right?

No!

It just means that there is an equal probability that you get energy M1 as energy M2, but there are many many more values for possible energy of the electron.
 
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  • #62
malawi_glenn said:
No!

a Beta particle = an electron; same thing but different name!

Each electron will only have ONE value of energy (M).

you must learn what a beta particle is.



No!

It just means that there is an equal probability that you get energy M1 as energy M2, but there are many many more values for possible energy of the electron.

I mean there are infinite possible kinetic energies for the electron, so there are infinite M points... Its the same, as you said...
 
  • #63
Physicsissuef said:
I mean there are infinite possible kinetic energies for the electron, so there are infinite M points... Its the same, as you said...


Yes, but that was not what you wrote however.
 
  • #64
malawi_glenn said:
Yes, but that was not what you wrote however.

And why did I said then? However, malawi_glenn, Astronuc and all others thank you very much for the help. Thanks again...
 
  • #65
Physicsissuef said:
And why did I said then?


I don't understand you now.. please have a look at your spelling again.

My intention is not to mock you because of your bad english, I just want to know what you mean, it is very hard to understand some of the things that you write.
 
  • #66
My real point was that there are infinite possible kinetic energies for the electron, so there are infinite M points, and probably the graphic is not correct... Sorry for any mistranslation...
 
  • #67
the conclusion is that the graphic is partly correct, there are infinite M points.
 
  • #68
Physicsissuef said:
the conclusion is that the graphic is partly correct, there are infinite M points.


the point that the graph wanted to make, was that each y-value is obtained by two x values. Execpt for the y_max which only one x value can give.

Compare with this function:

y(x) = -x^2+4.5*x on the interval: x from 0 to 4.5

on this interval, each y value can be obtained by two different x-values. y = 2.5 is given by x = 0,69 and 3,88. Only y_max = 5,06 which is given by x= 2.25

It is the same thing for the distribution functions for beta decay.
 
  • #69
But didn't we said that there should be infinite M points, not only 2? MAybe the graphic want to say that the kinetic energy of the electrons is not constant?
 
  • #70
Yes there are infinite many values for the energy!

But it was your counlcusion made in post #67 i reacted on.

The ultimate thing the graph wants to point out is that all the electrons are not emitted with the same energy, but the energy spans over a range. This is typical for a 3body decay - there are infinite number of combinate conservation of momentum and energy when you have more than 2 bodies in the final state.

You first question was about these M1 and M2, and that question has been answered severel times in this thread, each y-value have two corresponding x values, except y_max.

The Graphic is totally correct.
 
  • #71
Yes, we said that there are 2 corresponding values. But also we said that it can have 3,4,5,6,8,9,10000,10010... values for the kinetic energy of electrons...
 
  • #72
Physicsissuef said:
Yes, we said that there are 2 corresponding values. But also we said that it can have 3,4,5,6,8,9,10000,10010... values for the kinetic energy of electrons...

So where is the graph not correct according to you?
 
  • #73
I said it is correct... But having 2 points is not totally correct... It may confuse you, like in my case... I was confused why only 2 points, but later, thanks to you and Astronuc I understand that, actually there are infinite points (for each radionucleus, corresponding point, some points also may be same)...
 
  • #74
Post #66 and 67 you say that is not correct, and only partly correct.

But anyway, I hope you have learned a bit how distribution functions work
 

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