Understanding Centre of Mass Motion: E + $\sum_{i < j}(F_j_i + F_j_j)$

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the center of mass for a system of particles, particularly focusing on the motion of the center of mass and the forces acting on the particles. The original poster is trying to understand a specific equation involving the total energy and forces between particles.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to clarify the equation involving the sum of forces and energy, specifically questioning the term E + ∑i < j(Fj_i + Fj_j) and the significance of the i < j notation.
  • Some participants suggest there may be a typo in the equation and propose an alternative expression for the sum of forces.
  • Others express confusion about the sudden appearance of the equation in their notes without prior explanation, questioning whether it is a known relationship or requires proof.
  • One participant notes that the truth of the equation may be more of a mathematical identity rather than a physics concept, suggesting that a small example could clarify the relationship.

Discussion Status

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through potentially missing explanations in their university notes and are grappling with the implications of Newton's third law in the context of the forces involved.

ElDavidas
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I was looking over my notes for centre of mass for a system and it says:

[tex]c = \frac {1} {M} \sum_{i} m_i\ddot{r}_i = \sum_{i}(E_i + \sum_{j \neq i}F_i_j)[/tex]

where M is the total mass of the system.

Then it considers the centre of Mass in motion:

[tex]M \ddot{c} = \sum_i m_i \ddot{r}_i = \sum_{i}(E_i + \sum_{j \neq i}F_i_j)[/tex]

[tex]= \sum_{i}E_i + \sum_{j \neq i}F_i_j = E + \sum_{i < j}(F_j_i + F_j_j)[/tex]

[tex]= E[/tex]

The thing is, I don't understand the line:

[tex]E + \sum_{i < j}(F_j_i + F_j_j)[/tex]

and how it comes about (especially the i < j) part.

Any help would be grateful!
 
Last edited:
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Could there be a typo? I'd think that:
[tex]\sum_{j \neq i}F_i_j = \sum_{i < j}(F_j_i + F_i_j)[/tex]

(And this term disappears due to Newton's 3rd law.)
 
Doc Al said:
[tex]\sum_{j \neq i}F_i_j = \sum_{i < j}(F_j_i + F_i_j)[/tex]

Is this something you just need to know? It suddenly appears in my Uni notes without any explanation.
 
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking "Why is that true?" or "How am I supposed to know that?"
 
Doc Al said:
I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking "Why is that true?" or "How am I supposed to know that?"

What I mean is why is this true? Can this be shown from previous statements regarding the interaction of forces. I don't understand where

[tex]\sum_{j \neq i}F_i_j = \sum_{i < j}(F_j_i + F_i_j)[/tex]

is coming from.
 
The truth of this has nothing to do with physics; it's just a mathematical truism. To see that it's true, make up a small example (where i,j < 5, say) and confirm that both sides are equal.
 

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