Understanding Epsilon-Delta Proofs for Beginners

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the understanding of epsilon-delta proofs in calculus, specifically addressing the structure and approach to proving limits. Participants explore the conventional methods of starting proofs and the implications of quantifiers in these proofs.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the conventional approach of starting with the consequent of a conditional statement in epsilon-delta proofs, suggesting that it may be incorrect to do so.
  • Another participant explains that the proofs must hold for any ε > 0, which justifies starting at the end and finding a δ that depends on ε.
  • A further contribution indicates that before writing the proof, one typically determines δ as a function of ε, which is not part of the formal proof but is necessary for clarity.
  • There is a suggestion that omitting the initial determination of δ could confuse students, as it may seem arbitrary without context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriate starting point for epsilon-delta proofs, with some supporting the conventional method of beginning with the consequent while others advocate for starting with the antecedent. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the determination of δ is often not straightforward and may depend on the specific function being analyzed, which adds complexity to the proof process.

SweatingBear
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In a epsilon-delta proof, one wishes to show that $$0 < |x-a| < \delta$$ implies $$|f(x) - \text{L}| < \epsilon$$. But every example that I have seen, one always begins with the "then"-part, namely the conseqeunt $$|f(x) - \text{L}| < \epsilon$$, and work backwards to arrive at something reminiscent of $$0 < |x-a| < \delta$$.

But is this not the wrong way to carry out a proof of a conditional? From what I know, you conventionally have to begin with the antecedent (i.e. the "if"-part), assume it and see if it can lead you to the conclusion (and not the other way around). My spontaneous thought is that we do this because of the quantifiers "for every" and "there exists" but I am not sure.

Example: We wish to show that

$$\lim_{x \rightarrow 2} \, (x^2) = 4 \, .$$

We wish to show that if $$0 < |x-2| < \delta$$ then $$|x^2 - 4| < \epsilon$$. Naturally, one would then start off with $$0 < |x - 2| < \delta$$ and go on from there, but according to every example that I have seen that is not the case.

Can somebody help me see things clearer?
 
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sweatingbear said:
In a epsilon-delta proof, one wishes to show that $$0 < |x-a| < \delta$$ implies $$|f(x) - \text{L}| < \epsilon$$. But every example that I have seen, one always begins with the "then"-part, namely the conseqeunt $$|f(x) - \text{L}| < \epsilon$$, and work backwards to arrive at something reminiscent of $$0 < |x-a| < \delta$$.

But is this not the wrong way to carry out a proof of a conditional? From what I know, you conventionally have to begin with the antecedent (i.e. the "if"-part), assume it and see if it can lead you to the conclusion (and not the other way around). My spontaneous thought is that we do this because of the quantifiers "for every" and "there exists" but I am not sure.

Example: We wish to show that

$$\lim_{x \rightarrow 2} \, (x^2) = 4 \, .$$

We wish to show that if $$0 < |x-2| < \delta$$ then $$|x^2 - 4| < \epsilon$$. Naturally, one would then start off with $$0 < |x - 2| < \delta$$ and go on from there, but according to every example that I have seen that is not the case.

Can somebody help me see things clearer?

Hi sweatingbear! :)

The key is that these proofs have to hold for any $\varepsilon > 0$.
So these proofs do start at the end.
Then you have to find a $\delta >0$ which is dependent on $\varepsilon$, for which the implication holds.
 
I like Serena said:
Hi sweatingbear! :)

The key is that these proofs have to hold for any $\varepsilon > 0$.
So these proofs do start at the end.
Then you have to find a $\delta >0$ which is dependent on $\varepsilon$, for which the implication holds.

And I would add that few people can see what $\delta$ needs to be from the beginning. So the typical work-flow is that, before you write the actual proof, you find your $\delta$ as a function of $\epsilon$. Then you write your actual proof, which starts by letting $\epsilon$ be greater than zero, then assumes $0<|x-a|< \delta$, and shows that $|f(x)-L|< \epsilon$.

The first bit where you find your $\delta$ is not actually part of the proof proper, and you could omit it. However, for pedagogical purposes, having this weird expression come out of nowhere would be confusing to students, and they would wonder how they could find it.

http://www.mathhelpboards.com/f49/method-proving-some-non-linear-limits-4149/, at least for values of a function that are not local extrema.
 
All right, that helped see things differently (hopefully clearer); thanks for your replies.
 

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