Understanding Lorentz Groups and some key subgroups

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Discussion Overview

This thread explores the properties and definitions of the Lorentz group and its subgroups, particularly focusing on the proper orthochronous Lorentz group SO^{\uparrow}(1,3) and the orthogonal group O(1,3). The discussion includes mathematical definitions, properties of determinants, and the implications of continuity in mappings related to these groups.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Lorentz group is defined as the real semi-simple Lie group SO^{\uparrow}(1,3) and discuss the implications of transformations such as space and time reversals being disconnected from this group.
  • Questions are raised about whether the Lorentz group is always defined under the inner product, with examples provided including O(3) and SO(3).
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the eigenvalues of the defining symmetric matrix of O(1,3), with a request for proof of its properties.
  • Participants discuss the continuity of the determinant as a mapping and its implications for the connectedness of O(3), noting that matrices with determinants of 1 and -1 cannot be smoothly connected.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the definitions of disjoint and disconnected sets, with examples provided to illustrate the concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and properties of the Lorentz group and its subgroups, but there are competing views on the implications of these properties, particularly regarding continuity and the nature of disjoint versus disconnected sets. The discussion remains unresolved on some of the proofs and deeper implications of these properties.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for further clarification on the mathematical proofs regarding the eigenvalues and the properties of the determinant, as well as the definitions of the groups involved. Some assumptions about continuity and mappings are not fully explored.

JD_PM
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TL;DR
I'd like to gain more insight on the Lorentz Group, its most important subgroups and must-know examples in Physics. At the moment I only know a handful: the orthogonal group ##O(3)##, the orthogonal group ##SO(3)## and the proper orthochronous Lorentz group [itex]SO^{\uparrow}(1,3)[/itex]
This thread is motivated by samalkhaiat's comment here

samalkhaiat said:
That is neither continuous nor connected Lorentz transformation. It is a discrete space-time reversal (x^{0} , x^{i}) \to (-x^{0} , -x^{i}). Space reflection (x^{0} , x^{i}) \to (x^{0} , -x^{i}); time reversal (x^{0} , x^{i}) \to (-x^{0} , x^{i}) and space-time reversal form disjoint subsets and are not continuously connected to the identity. In English, x \to – x does not belong to the proper orthochronous Lorentz group SO^{\uparrow}(1,3). By the “Lorentz group”, we always mean the real semi-simple Lie group SO^{\uparrow}(1,3).

I know that the Lorentz Group is formed by all matrices that satisfy

$$\eta = \Lambda^{T} \eta \Lambda \tag{1.1}$$

Which is equivalent to

$$\eta_{\mu\nu}\Lambda^{\mu}{}_{\rho}\Lambda^{\nu}{}_{\sigma} = \eta_{\rho \sigma} \tag{1.2}$$

If we add no more restrictions and define the group under the inner product we end up with the group ##O(1,3)##.

I also know that all orthogonal matrices must satisfy ##1_3 =R^T 1_3 R##. They include not only rotational matrices but also space and time reversals, also known as parity transformations (i.e. (x^{0} , x^{i}) \to (x^{0} , -x^{i})) and (x^{0} , x^{i}) \to (-x^{0} , x^{i}) respectively)

I have some questions:

1) Is the Lorentz group always defined under the inner product? The only examples I know are; for instance: the orthogonal group ##O(3)##, the orthogonal group ##SO(3)## and the proper orthochronous Lorentz group SO^{\uparrow}(1,3)

2) I've read that ##O(1,3)## has one positive and one negative eigenvalue of its defining symmetric matrix. I do not see why, how could we prove it?

3)
samalkhaiat said:
x \to – x does not belong to the proper orthochronous Lorentz group SO^{\uparrow}(1,3). By the “Lorentz group”, we always mean the real semi-simple Lie group SO^{\uparrow}(1,3).

If I am not mistaken, this is because SO^{\uparrow}(1,3) requires matrices to fulfil not only ##1_3 =R^T 1_3 R## condition but also that its determinant must be 1. The later condition is not fulfilled by matrices representing parity transformations (spatial, time and space-time reversals), but how can I prove this?Sources:

SpaceTime & Geometry by Carroll, pages 12,13,14

vanhees71 QFT manuscript, section 3.1.
Any help is appreciated.

Thank you :biggrin:
 
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JD_PM said:
If I am not mistaken, this is because SO^{\uparrow}(1,3) requires matrices to fulfil not only ##1_3 =R^T 1_3 R## condition but also that its determinant must be 1. The later condition is not fulfilled by matrices representing parity transformations (spatial, time and space-time reversals), but how can I prove this?

Just an observation that the determinant is a continuous mapping from the set of all matrices to the set of real numbers. You cannot smoothly map a matrix with determinant ##1## to a matrix with determinant ##-1##, without going through all other values (intermediate value theorem).

And, in fact, the existence of a continuous function from a set into a two-point set ##\{-1, 1 \}## is the definition of a disconnected set. Hence ##O(3)## comprises two disconnected subsets.
 
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Hi PeroK

PeroK said:
Just an observation that the determinant is a continuous mapping from the set of all matrices to the set of real numbers.

Please let me write down the mathematical definition of the determinant for future copy-paste reference

$$f:\Re^{n \times n} \rightarrow \Re : A = \Big(
\begin{pmatrix}
R_1 \\
. \\
. \\
R_n
\end{pmatrix}\Big) \mapsto f(A)$$

PeroK said:
You cannot smoothly map a matrix with determinant ##1## to a matrix with determinant ##-1##, without going through all other values (intermediate value theorem).

And, in fact, the existence of a continuous function from a set into a two-point set ##\{-1, 1 \}## is the definition of a disconnected set. Hence ##O(3)## comprises two disconnected subsets.

Oh so space reflections ##(x^{0} , x^{i}) \to (x^{0} , -x^{i})## and time reversals ##(x^{0} , x^{i}) \to (-x^{0} , x^{i})## are two disconnected subsets of ##O(3)##? Then, do disconnected and disjoint mean the same?
 
JD_PM said:
Then, do disconnected and disjoint mean the same?
Disjoint refers to any two sets having no members in common. Disconnected-ness is a property of a topological space, which roughly means that it is not in one piece. For example, the real numbers can be expressed as the union of two disjoint sets.

##\mathbb{R} = (-\infty, 0] \cup (0, +\infty)##

But, ##\mathbb{R}## is connected (with the usual topology).

A topological space, ##S##, is disconnecetd iff there exists a continuous function from ##S## onto a two-point set.

For example, the set ##S = (-\infty, 0) \cup (0, +\infty)## is disconnected. You can see this as the function ##f: S \rightarrow \{0, 1\}##:

##f(x) = 0 \ (x < 0)##, and ##f(x) = 1 \ (x > 0)## is continuous (despite what some people may say!).

PS ##O(3)## is disconnected. Using the properties of the determinant gives you the easiest proof.
 
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