Understanding Set Theory: Query on +, -, *. /

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter nigelwu
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of basic arithmetic operations (addition and multiplication) within the framework of set theory, particularly focusing on their injective and surjective characteristics. Participants explore the implications of these properties for defining inverses and the relationships between multiplication and division.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether multiplication can be considered a one-to-one onto function and suggests that it cannot, citing examples where different inputs yield the same output.
  • Another participant agrees that multiplication is not one-to-one and notes that it has no left inverse, while also stating that it has many right inverses.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of division, with a participant clarifying that division is a partial function and not the inverse of multiplication.
  • A participant seeks clarification on how multiplication and division relate in arithmetic, particularly in the context of expressing one operation in terms of the other.
  • Another participant emphasizes that knowing the sum or product does not uniquely determine the individual components involved.
  • A suggestion is made to define pairs of functions that could serve as inverses under certain conditions, specifically for nonzero numbers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that multiplication is not one-to-one and that it lacks a left inverse. However, there is disagreement regarding the implications of these properties for defining inverses and the relationship between multiplication and division, leaving the discussion unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of operations in set theory, particularly regarding the axioms of symmetry and distributivity. The discussion also highlights the limitations of defining inverses in the context of arithmetic operations.

nigelwu
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hi, I am currently reading something on Set Theory (I am not a student BTW) and I got struck. Please would somebody could give me some advices. Thanks in advance.


Is multiplication a one to one onto function G:NxN->N or G:RxR->R
I guess not. Since G(2,3)=6 and G(1,6)=6. So if not, then does this mean that there exist no inverse G such that G o InverseG = 1?
If so, does this inverseG refer to our usual sense for "division"?

Is the usual additional a one to one onto function F:NxN->N or F:RxR->R


So how do we see the addition and multiplication in the sense of Set Theory?

Does this mean that I have to stick to the symmetry, distributive, .. axioms etc.? If so why symmetry? and why distributive?...
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Multiplication is not 1-1, so it has no left inverse. It has many right inverses, but since it has no left inverse, it has no inverse. If G were to have an inverse, it would be a function [itex]\mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}\times \mathbb{R}[/itex]. Division, on the other hand, is a (partial) function [itex]\mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}[/itex], so not only is division not the inverse of multiplication, it isn't even the right type of function.

All four basic arithmetic operations are onto.

Addition is not one-to-one.

I can't make sense of the last four questions.
 
Thanks for your help. Really appreciated.

So, how would we related multiplication and division, particularly if we are doing arithematic, say x*y=z implies x=y/z for z not equal 0.

(ps since I read something saying that think of minus is a reverse process of addition)
 
You are not appreciating the fact that given two numbers such that x+y=z ro xy=z then this in no way determines x or y.
 
You could define a pair of functions, R->R, by fa(b)=ab and ga(b)=b/a for any nonzero number a, and these would be inverses.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
548
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K