Understanding Space-Time & Fields: A Flowchart Guide

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the concepts of space-time and fields, exploring their relationships and representations, particularly through flowcharts or procedural diagrams. Participants are seeking clarity on whether space-time is a unified substance or a collection of fields, and how these concepts interrelate with particles and forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in visualizing space-time and fields, requesting a flowchart to illustrate their relationships.
  • Another participant suggests that in the Standard Model, space-time is not a substance or field but a set of real numbers that parametrize quantum fields.
  • There is a question about whether space-time should be considered a concept or a physical entity, with one participant arguing that many elements in physics are conceptual constructs.
  • A suggestion is made to replace "spacetime" with "universe" in a proposed diagram, questioning the appropriate labeling and mapping of these concepts.
  • One participant reflects on the nature of physical theories, suggesting that many foundational concepts are human-made constructs that, while useful, do not necessarily represent physical reality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether space-time is a unified substance, a collection of fields, or merely a conceptual framework. Multiple competing views remain regarding the nature of space-time and its relationship to fields and particles.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the definitions and relationships between space-time, fields, and particles, indicating that the discussion is limited by the complexity of these concepts and the varying interpretations of physical theories.

Quest_Ion
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I am having a very difficult time picturing space-time and fields and all...

Anyone here have a sort of flow chart or procedural chart that I could use to try to better wrap my head around what this place is?

Sort of starting with universe and then going into spacetime and from spacetime to fields or if spacetime is a field then put fields first or however it is ordered and then placement for field excitations (particles) coming from which field they come from? Like a flowchart?

Anyone have anything like that or maybe could you draw a rough sketch for me?
Is spacetime a singularly unified substance or field?

Is spacetime a collection of fields?

Are fields excitations of spacetime or is spacetime an excitation of something more fundamental?

If a force is an excitation of a field Is a field a non-excited force?

What is the starting point exactly?

etc?

example_only.png
 
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Quest_Ion said:
Is spacetime a singularly unified substance or field?
An answer that can be given in terms of the current models and theories. For the Standard Model in flat space-time, space-time is neither a substance or a field. It appears as a group of real numbers that parametrize the quantum fields which make up the standard model. These 4 parameters transform under the Poincare group which is made up of the rotations, boosts and translations as do the SM fields. The General relativity space-time is again a real number parameters set but making up a mathematical object called a manifold.
 
Paul Colby said:
It appears as a group of real numbers that parametrize the quantum fields which make up the standard model.

Spacetime is a sort of measure, like in wave-collapse, or a conceptual measure on paper used for illustrating/measuring fields by people?

In the above diagram, I should replace spacetime with universe and the line between the universe and em field, I should label spacetime? Or is spacetime just a concept?

How would you map it as above?
 
Quest_Ion said:
is spacetime just a concept?
I can't think of anything in physical theories that isn't just a made up concept by definition. I once talked to someone who happen to meet Linus Pauling in a restroom. He asked him how he happened to develop his spin formalism. He said beaming down to my friend who was rather short; "I just made it up." Integers, real number, Hilbert spaces, quantum fields are all just things people made up / developed . Now, having said that, these things are very useful things because they work. My suggestion for a flow chart would go,

##\text{Physics}\rightarrow\text{Read Some}##

Other than this I'm at a loss to help.
 

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