Understanding Tensors: Finding the Value of a Tensor

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of finding the value of a specific tensor \(F(v, f)\) given certain vectors and dual vectors. Participants explore the properties and calculations related to tensors, including their representation and evaluation in a multilinear context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the problem of evaluating the tensor \(F = e^1 \otimes e_2 + e^2 \otimes (e_1 + 3e_3)\) at specific vectors \(v\) and \(f\).
  • Another participant proposes a method for evaluating the tensor, suggesting that \(e^i \otimes e_j (v,f) = v^i f_j\) and provides calculations leading to \(F(v,f) = 21\), while expressing uncertainty about their calculations.
  • A participant requests clarification on the notation and reasoning behind the evaluation of the tensor, indicating they are new to the topic.
  • One participant explains the concept of tensors as multilinear maps and discusses the relationship between tensors and their representations in terms of basis vectors and dual basis vectors.
  • The explanation includes details about the tensor product, the standard basis, and how the evaluation of the tensor relates to matrix representations, but acknowledges potential confusion with indices.
  • Another participant reiterates the explanation of tensors and their evaluation, emphasizing the complexity that arises with larger dimensions and the operations involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the fundamental concepts of tensors and their evaluation, but there is no consensus on the correctness of the calculations provided, and some participants express uncertainty about their understanding.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with tensor concepts, and there are indications of potential confusion regarding notation and calculations. The discussion does not resolve all uncertainties, particularly concerning the evaluation steps and the handling of indices.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals seeking to understand the evaluation of tensors, the properties of multilinear maps, and the application of tensor products in a mathematical context.

Sudharaka
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Hi everyone, :)

Here's a problem that I recently encountered and want to get an hint on how to solve. :)

Problem:

Find the value \(F(v,\,f)\) of the tensor \(F=e^1\otimes e_2+e^2\otimes (e_1+3e_3)\in T_{1}^{1}(V)\), where \(v=e_1+5e_2+4e_3\), \(f=e^1+e^2+e^3\).
 
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Oh gee, it's been forever since I did this stuff, but I think if:

$v = v^1e_1 + v^2e_2 + v^3e_3$ (more compactly, $v = v^je_j$) and

$f = f_1e^1 + f_2e^2 + f_3e^3$ then:

$e^i \otimes e_j (v,f) = v^if_j$

so in this case:

$e^1 \otimes e_2 (v,f) = 1$

$e^2 \otimes (e_1 + 3e_3) (v,f) = (5)(1 + 3) = 20$

so that $F(v,f) = 21$ (assuming I have my "ups and downs" correct...it's been awhile).
 
Deveno said:
Oh gee, it's been forever since I did this stuff, but I think if:

$v = v^1e_1 + v^2e_2 + v^3e_3$ (more compactly, $v = v^je_j$) and

$f = f_1e^1 + f_2e^2 + f_3e^3$ then:

$e^i \otimes e_j (v,f) = v^if_j$

so in this case:

$e^1 \otimes e_2 (v,f) = 1$

$e^2 \otimes (e_1 + 3e_3) (v,f) = (5)(1 + 3) = 20$

so that $F(v,f) = 21$ (assuming I have my "ups and downs" correct...it's been awhile).

Thanks very much for the response. But can you please explain to me how you wrote,

\[e^i \otimes e_j (v,f) = v^if_j\]

I am new to tensors, so sorry if this is an obvious question. :)
 
The way I learned it, a tensor is a multilinear map:

$T:\underbrace{V \times \cdots \times V}_{n\ copies} \times \underbrace{V^{\ast} \times \cdots \times V^{\ast}}_{m\ copies} \to F$

We can, by the universality of the tensor product, regard $T$ as an element of:

$\underbrace{V^{\ast} \otimes \cdots \otimes V^{\ast}}_{n\ copies} \otimes \underbrace{V \otimes \cdots \otimes V}_{m\ copies}$

(here, we are implicitly identifying $V$ with $V^{\ast\ast}$).

In this case, $m = n = 1$, which makes our tensor particularly easy to understand. In this case, we have that any such tensor is a linear combination of elementary tensors of basis covectors and vectors. So it suffices to determine what:

$e^j \otimes e_i (v,u^{\ast})$ is, for any two vectors $u,v \in V$.

Typically, $\{e_1,\dots,e_n\}$ is the standard (Euclidean) basis for $F^n$, and $\{e^1,\dots,e^n\}$ is the dual basis; that is, the linear functionals:

$\displaystyle e^j(v) = e^j\left(\sum_{i = 1}^n v^ie_i \right) = v^j$

(the linear functional that returns the $j$-th coordinate of $v$ in the standard basis).

It is typical to regard $e_i$ as an $n \times 1$ (column) matrix, and $e^j$ as a $1 \times n$ (row) matrix, in which case their tensor product is given by their Kronecker product, the $n \times n$ matrix (written below in block form):

$\begin{bmatrix}0e_i&\dots&1e_i&\dots&0e_n \end{bmatrix}$


$= E_{ij}$, which has a 1 in the $i,j$-th entry, and 0's elsewhere. That is:

$e^j \otimes e_i (v,u^{\ast}) = u^TE_{ij}v = (u^{\ast})_iv^j$

(I hope I have my indices correct...I get these backwards a lot).

In this example, we have $V = F^3$ (as near as I can surmise), with:

$v = (1,5,4)$ (in the basis of $\{e_1,e_2,e_3\}$ and

$f = (1,1,1)^{\ast}$ (in the dual basis), so that:

$e^1 \otimes e_2(v,f)$ returns the product of the first coordinate of $v$ with the second coordinate of $f$.

(Tensor products become very unwieldy to explictly compute once m and n start to get larger than 2, as the number of operations to do gets rather large).
 
Deveno said:
The way I learned it, a tensor is a multilinear map:

$T:\underbrace{V \times \cdots \times V}_{n\ copies} \times \underbrace{V^{\ast} \times \cdots \times V^{\ast}}_{m\ copies} \to F$

We can, by the universality of the tensor product, regard $T$ as an element of:

$\underbrace{V^{\ast} \otimes \cdots \otimes V^{\ast}}_{n\ copies} \otimes \underbrace{V \otimes \cdots \otimes V}_{m\ copies}$

(here, we are implicitly identifying $V$ with $V^{\ast\ast}$).

In this case, $m = n = 1$, which makes our tensor particularly easy to understand. In this case, we have that any such tensor is a linear combination of elementary tensors of basis covectors and vectors. So it suffices to determine what:

$e^j \otimes e_i (v,u^{\ast})$ is, for any two vectors $u,v \in V$.

Typically, $\{e_1,\dots,e_n\}$ is the standard (Euclidean) basis for $F^n$, and $\{e^1,\dots,e^n\}$ is the dual basis; that is, the linear functionals:

$\displaystyle e^j(v) = e^j\left(\sum_{i = 1}^n v^ie_i \right) = v^j$

(the linear functional that returns the $j$-th coordinate of $v$ in the standard basis).

It is typical to regard $e_i$ as an $n \times 1$ (column) matrix, and $e^j$ as a $1 \times n$ (row) matrix, in which case their tensor product is given by their Kronecker product, the $n \times n$ matrix (written below in block form):

$\begin{bmatrix}0e_i&\dots&1e_i&\dots&0e_n \end{bmatrix}$


$= E_{ij}$, which has a 1 in the $i,j$-th entry, and 0's elsewhere. That is:

$e^j \otimes e_i (v,u^{\ast}) = u^TE_{ij}v = (u^{\ast})_iv^j$

(I hope I have my indices correct...I get these backwards a lot).

In this example, we have $V = F^3$ (as near as I can surmise), with:

$v = (1,5,4)$ (in the basis of $\{e_1,e_2,e_3\}$ and

$f = (1,1,1)^{\ast}$ (in the dual basis), so that:

$e^1 \otimes e_2(v,f)$ returns the product of the first coordinate of $v$ with the second coordinate of $f$.

(Tensor products become very unwieldy to explictly compute once m and n start to get larger than 2, as the number of operations to do gets rather large).

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation. It would take some time to sink in all the details you provided but I am learning slowly. :)
 

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