Understanding the Equation 2.14 and its Application in Srednicki's Theory

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation and application of equation 2.14 in Srednicki's theory, specifically focusing on the transformation properties of the operator U and the implications of the expressions involving the parameters \(\delta \omega\) and \(\delta \Omega\). The scope includes technical explanations and mathematical reasoning related to the manipulation of indices and terms in the context of theoretical physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the transformation \(U(\Lambda^{-1} \Lambda' \Lambda) \approx \delta \omega_{\mu \nu} \Lambda^{\mu}_{\, \, \rho} \Lambda^{\nu}_{\, \, \sigma} M^{\rho \sigma}\) and suggests a potential mislabeling of \(\omega\) as \(\omega'\).
  • Another participant provides a derivation showing that \(\Lambda^{-1} \Lambda' \Lambda\) can be expressed in terms of \(\delta \omega\) and confirms the linear term's form, indicating that it aligns with the original expression.
  • A later reply reiterates the derivation and expresses gratitude for the clarification, indicating that the explanation makes sense.
  • One participant seeks clarification on the equivalence of two expressions involving the indices and questions the reasoning behind the transformation of indices in the context of the operator U.
  • Another participant asserts that the equivalence of the expressions is not valid and attempts to clarify the relationship between \(\delta \omega\) and \(\delta \Omega\) using index manipulation.
  • Further contributions confirm the understanding of the transformations and express appreciation for the insights shared in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the manipulation of indices and the validity of certain transformations. While some explanations are accepted, there remains contention over specific equivalences and the reasoning behind them.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the handling of indices and the implications of transformations, highlighting the complexity of the mathematical expressions involved. There are also references to earlier equations and definitions that may not be fully resolved within the current discussion.

nrqed
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He defines

[tex]U(1 + \delta \omega) \approx 1 + \frac{i}{2} \delta \omega_{\mu \nu} M^{\mu \nu}[/tex]

Then he considers

[tex]U(\Lambda^{-1} \Lambda' \Lambda)[/tex]

with [itex]\Lambda' = 1 + \delta \omega'[/itex]
He then says that

[tex]U(\Lambda^{-1} \Lambda' \Lambda) \approx \delta \omega_{\mu \nu} \Lambda^{\mu}_{\, \, \rho} \Lambda^{\nu}_{\, \, \sigma} M^{\rho \sigma}[/tex]


I don't see why this is true. (by the way, I assume the [itex]\omega[/itex] is actually meant to be [itex]\omega'[/itex] ). I don't see how the [itex]\Lambda^{-1} \Lambda[/itex] turned into the expression on the right.

thanks
 
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We have:

[tex]\Lambda^{-1} \Lambda' \Lambda = {(\Lambda^{-1})^\mu}_\nu {\Lambda'^\nu}_\rho {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma[/tex]

Now, from 2.5 we know [itex]{(\Lambda^{-1})^\mu}_\nu = {\Lambda_\nu}^{\mu}[/itex], so this becomes (expanding [itex]\Lambda'[/itex]):

[tex]= {\Lambda_\nu}^\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma \left( {\delta^\nu}_\rho + {\delta \omega^\nu}_\rho \right)[/tex]

So that the linear term is (with both indices down):

[tex]{\Lambda^\nu}_\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma \delta \omega_{\nu\rho}[/tex]

Plugging into 2.12 gives your answer.
 
Last edited:
StatusX said:
We have:

[tex]\Lambda^{-1} \Lambda' \Lambda = {(\Lambda^{-1})^\mu}_\nu {\Lambda'^\nu}_\rho {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma[/tex]

Now, from 2.5 we know [itex]{(\Lambda^{-1})^\mu}_\nu = {\Lambda_\nu}^{\mu}[/itex], so this becomes (expanding [itex]\Lambda'[/itex]):

[tex]= {\Lambda_\nu}^\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma \left( {\delta^\nu}_\rho + {\delta \omega^\nu}_\rho \right)[/tex]

So that the linear term is (with both indices down):

[tex]{\Lambda^\nu}_\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma \delta \omega_{\nu\rho}[/tex]

Plugging into 2.12 gives your answer.

Thank you very much StatusX for all your help, it is very much appreciated.

Makes perfect sense !

Thanks again for your help
 
how is

[tex] {\Lambda_\nu}^\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma {\delta \omega^\nu}_\rho [/tex] equal to [tex] {\Lambda^\nu}_\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma \delta \omega_{\nu\rho} [/tex] ?

The index structure inside the U should be [tex]{}^a{}_b[/tex] and outside U nothing (full contracted), so what we can write [tex] {\Lambda_\nu}^\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma {\delta \omega^\nu}_\rho [/tex] equal to as is:
[tex]\Lambda^{\nu \mu}{\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma {\delta \omega _\nu}_\rho[/tex] and then what? how can one conclude that the linear term with "both indices down" is [tex] {\Lambda^\nu}_\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma \delta \omega_{\nu\rho} [/tex] ?
 
Last edited:
I mean, is it an "argument by analogy" or is there a more profound way to find these things out?
 
malawi_glenn said:
how is

[tex] {\Lambda_\nu}^\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma {\delta \omega^\nu}_\rho [/tex] equal to [tex] {\Lambda^\nu}_\mu {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma \delta \omega_{\nu\rho} [/tex] ?
It isn't. Let's write [itex]\Lambda^{-1}\Lambda'\Lambda=\Lambda''[/itex]. You're trying to find the first order term of [itex]U(\Lambda'')=U(1+\delta\omega'')=I+\frac i 2 \delta\omega''_{\mu\nu}M^{\mu\nu}[/itex].

You already know that [itex](\delta\omega'')^\mu{}_\sigma=\Lambda_\nu{}^\mu\Lambda^\rho{}_\sigma\delta\omega^\nu{}_\rho[/itex]. That implies that [itex](\delta\omega'')_\mu{}_\sigma=\Lambda_\nu{}_\mu\Lambda^\rho{}_\sigma\delta\omega^\nu{}_\rho=\Lambda^\nu{}_\mu\Lambda^\rho{}_\sigma\delta\omega_\nu{}_\rho[/itex].
 
Last edited:
Everything is OK.

[tex]U \left( \Lambda^{-1} \Lambda ' \Lambda \right) = U \left( 1 + \delta \Omega \right) = 1 + \frac{i}{2 \hbar} \delta \Omega_{\mu \nu} M^{\mu \nu},[/tex]

where

[tex]\delta \Omega = \Lambda^{-1} \delta \omega \Lambda.[/tex]

Consequently,

[tex]{\delta \Omega^\mu}_\sigma = {\Lambda_\nu}^\mu \delta {\omega^\nu}_\rho {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma[/tex]

and

[tex]\delta \Omega_{\mu \sigma} = {\Lambda^\nu}_\mu \delta \omega_{\nu \rho} {\Lambda^\rho}_\sigma .[/tex]

I hope I haven't screwed up the indicies too much.
 
Thanx Fredrik and George, I had those two things in mind, you confirmed them :-)
 

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