Understanding the Lagrange Points: What's Going Wrong with L2 and L3?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the understanding of Lagrange points, particularly L2 and L3, within the context of gravitational interactions between the Earth and the Sun. Participants explore the stability of these points and the effects of centrifugal force in a rotating system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the stability of L2 and L3, suggesting that the combined gravitational pull of the Sun and Earth makes these points less stable.
  • Another participant points out that the system is rotating, introducing the concept of fictitious centrifugal force, which contributes to the dynamics at these points.
  • A later reply suggests that L2 and L3 can be thought of as analogous to a small planet in orbit around the Sun, but emphasizes that the presence of the Earth affects stability.
  • It is noted that L1, L2, and L3 are unstable equilibrium points, meaning that while satellites can be positioned there, they will not remain indefinitely without careful management.
  • In contrast, L4 and L5 are described as stable points, where natural satellites and asteroids are commonly found.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the stability of L2 and L3, with some arguing for their instability and others providing explanations that involve additional forces in the rotating frame.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for a third body to be significantly lighter than the Earth to avoid influencing its orbit, indicating a limitation in the discussion regarding the mass ratios involved.

Imager
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The Wiki article shows 5 Lagrange points. I can “see” how the points L1, L4 and L5 points would be balanced by the gravitation of the two bodies, but not the L2 and L3.

For L2 and L3, it looks to me like the combination of the Sun’s and Earth’s gravity increase pull and make less stable. So where am I going wrong?

upload_2016-7-2_9-49-42.png


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_point
 
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You are forgetting that this is a rotating system. Consequently, there is also a contribution from the ficticious centrifugal force in the rotating frame.
 
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Orodruin said:
You are forgetting that this is a rotating system. Consequently, there is also a contribution from the ficticious centrifugal force in the rotating frame.

So I could think of it like another small planet in orbit around the sun?
 
Imager said:
So I could think of it like another small planet in orbit around the sun?
Essentially. The "big" thing here is that the presence of the second large body (the Earth) has the effect that at the angular velocity only is the same at a few points. In other places, the gravitational effect of the Earth will destabilise the orbit.

Edit: Also note that this third body needs to be significantly lighter than the Earth in order not to influence the Earth orbit as well.
 
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Imager said:
The Wiki article shows 5 Lagrange points. I can “see” how the points L1, L4 and L5 points would be balanced by the gravitation of the two bodies, but not the L2 and L3.

For L2 and L3, it looks to me like the combination of the Sun’s and Earth’s gravity increase pull and make less stable. So where am I going wrong?
L1, L2, and L3 are all unstable equilibrium points. You can park a satellite there, if you're careful, but it won't stay forever: it will eventually get kicked out of the orbit. It's rare to find natural satellites at these points. L4 and L5 are stable, so there's lots of asteroids and whatnot around those Lagrange points.
 
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Great answers, thank you!

Another proof that my intuition gets it backwards when in come to Physics and my golf swing.
 

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