Understanding the Logic of Quantified Statements

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the logic of quantified statements, specifically focusing on the negation of implications within logical formulas. Participants explore the equivalence of various logical expressions and the correct application of logical laws. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanations related to formal logic.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 presents a quantified statement involving implications and asks for further exploration.
  • Post 2 provides a series of logical equivalences related to the negation of the initial statement, seeking to finish the derivation.
  • Post 3 proposes a continuation of the logical equivalence but questions its correctness.
  • Posts 4 and 5 emphasize the correct interpretation of the negation of implications, stating that the negation of $A \to B$ is $A \land \neg B$ and discussing the well-posedness of the original problem.
  • Post 6 points out an error in parentheses and suggests careful application of the negation law discussed earlier.
  • Post 7 reiterates the issue with parentheses and discusses the implications of the negation law further.
  • Posts 8 and 9 focus on finding an equivalent formula for the negation of the implication, asking participants to identify substitutions for $A$ and $B$ in the context of their formulas.
  • Post 10 confirms the correctness of a proposed formula derived from the earlier discussions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement on the correct application of logical laws and the formulation of equivalent expressions. There is no consensus on the final form of the logical expressions, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the original problem may not be well-posed, and there are unresolved issues regarding the balance of parentheses in the proposed formulas.

stan1992
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∃x∀y∀z[(F(x, y)∧G(x,z)) → H(y,z)]
 
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\begin{align*}
\neg\big[(\exists \, x)(\forall \, y)(\forall \, z)[(F(x,y) \land G(x,z)) \to H(y,z)]\big]
&\equiv (\forall \, x)\neg\big[(\forall \, y)(\forall \, z)[(F(x,y) \land G(x,z)) \to H(y,z)]\big] \\
&\equiv (\forall \, x)(\exists \, y)\neg\big[(\forall \, z)[(F(x,y) \land G(x,z)) \to H(y,z)]\big] \\
&\equiv (\forall \, x)(\exists \, y)(\exists \, z)\neg\big[(F(x,y) \land G(x,z)) \to H(y,z)\big].
\end{align*}
Can you finish?
 
≡(∀x)(∃y)(∃z)[¬(F(x,y)∧G(x,z))→¬H(y,z)]
≡(∀x)(∃y)(∃z)[¬F(x,y)∨¬G(x,z)→¬H(y,z)]

Is this correct?
 
Last edited:
The negation of $A\to B$ is $A\land\neg B$ and not $\neg A\to\neg B$. In fact, it is not entirely correct to say "the negation" because each formula has infinitely many formulas equivalent to it. For the same reason, the original problem is not well-posed. As it is stated now, it is enough to add $\neg$ to the beginning the formula.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
The negation of $A\to B$ is $A\land\neg B$ and not $\neg A\to\neg B$. In fact, it is not entirely correct to say "the negation" because each formula has infinitely many formulas equivalent to it. For the same reason, the original problem is not well-posed. As it is stated now, it is enough to add $\neg$ to the beginning the formula.

≡(∀x)(∃y)(∃z)[¬F(x,y)VG(x,z))∧H(y,z)]

Would this be it?
 
stan1992 said:
≡(∀x)(∃y)(∃z)[¬F(x,y)VG(x,z))∧H(y,z)]

Would this be it?
No. For one, this formula has unbalanced parentheses.

You should apply the law about the negation of an implication that I wrote more carefully.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
No. For one, this formula has unbalanced parentheses.

You should apply the law about the negation of an implication that I wrote more carefully.

(∀x)(∃y)(∃z)(¬F(x,y)V¬G(x,z)∧¬H(y,z))

¬G is because of Dem. and ¬H from the Def→ right?
 
The problem is in finding an equivalent formula for $\neg((F(x, y)\land G(x,z))\to H(y,z))$. I stated that $\neg(A\to B)\equiv A\land\neg B$. Please compare two formulas:
\begin{align}
&\neg((F(x, y)\land G(x,z))\to H(y,z))\\
&\neg(A\to B)
\end{align}
What should be substituted for $A$ and $B$ so that these formulas become equal, character-by-character? After you determine this, please write what $A\land\neg B$ looks like for those concrete $A$ and $B$.
 
Evgeny.Makarov said:
The problem is in finding an equivalent formula for $\neg((F(x, y)\land G(x,z))\to H(y,z))$. I stated that $\neg(A\to B)\equiv A\land\neg B$. Please compare two formulas:
\begin{align}
&\neg((F(x, y)\land G(x,z))\to H(y,z))\\
&\neg(A\to B)
\end{align}
What should be substituted for $A$ and $B$ so that these formulas become equal, character-by-character? After you determine this, please write what $A\land\neg B$ looks like for those concrete $A$ and $B$.

≡(∀x)(∃y)(∃z)[(F(x,y)∧G(x,z))∧¬H(y,z)]
 
  • #10
stan1992 said:
≡(∀x)(∃y)(∃z)[(F(x,y)∧G(x,z))∧¬H(y,z)]
This is correct.
 

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