Understanding the Nullspace of Eigenspaces

  • Thread starter Thread starter g.lemaitre
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Nullspace
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the nullspace of eigenspaces, specifically related to the vector u_1 and its representation in relation to a matrix given as 2I - A. Participants are trying to clarify the relationship between u_1 and the vector v_1, as well as the normalization process involved.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants express confusion regarding the calculation of u_1 and its normalization, questioning the validity of the representation [1, -1] versus their own calculations. Some seek clarification on the definition of v_1 and its role in the problem. Others explore the implications of the nullspace and eigenspace definitions.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the definitions and relationships between u_1, v_1, and the matrix 2I - A. Some participants have offered insights into the properties of eigenvectors and the nullspace, while others are still grappling with the underlying concepts and calculations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of a clear definition for v_1 in the problem statement, which contributes to the confusion. There is also mention of the need to clarify the normalization process and its relevance to the span of u_1.

g.lemaitre
Messages
267
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement


Screenshot2012-07-28at80229PM.png

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution


I don't understand how [tex]u_1[/tex] = [tex][1 -1]^T[/tex]? By my reckoning [tex]u_1[/tex] =
[tex] \frac{v_1}{\parallel v_1 \parallel}[/tex]
which is
[tex] \frac{-2}{\parallel -2+1 \parallel}, \frac{-2}{\parallel -2+1 \parallel}[/tex]
which is
[-2, -2] not [1, -1]
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Could you clear up your tex? It is hard to understand what your actual question is. Use [ tex] and [ /tex] tags for tex. (Without the space!)
 
g.lemaitre said:

Homework Statement



Screenshot2012-07-28at80229PM.png


Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



I don't understand how [itex]u_1[/itex] = [itex][1, -1]^T[/itex]?

By my reckoning [itex]\displaystyle <br /> u_1=\frac{v_1}{\parallel v_1 \parallel}[/itex]

which is
[tex] \frac{-2}{\parallel -2+1 \parallel}, \frac{-2}{\parallel -2+1 \parallel}<br /> [/tex]
which is

[-2, -2] not [1, -1]
There.

I pretty much cleaned it up for you.
 
I do not know what v_1 is, as it is not in the problem statement. But I can explain where u_1 comes from. The problem gives the matrix 2I-A. If you take u_1 and calculate (2I-A)u_1, then you get the 0 vector. Thus, u_1 lies in the null space of (2I - A). Since the null space of 2I - A has dimension one, that means that u_1 spans the null space of 2I - A, and so that 2Iu_1 = Au_1, meaning that u_1 is an eigenvector of A, and thus spans the eigenspace of A. Also, you do not have to normalize u_1, since the span of the normalized u_1 is the same as the span of u_1.
 
who_ said:
I do not know what v_1 is, as it is not in the problem statement. But I can explain where u_1 comes from. The problem gives the matrix 2I-A. If you take u_1 and calculate (2I-A)u_1, then you get the 0 vector. Thus, u_1 lies in the null space of (2I - A). Since the null space of 2I - A has dimension one, that means that u_1 spans the null space of 2I - A, and so that 2Iu_1 = Au_1, meaning that u_1 is an eigenvector of A, and thus spans the eigenspace of A. Also, you do not have to normalize u_1, since the span of the normalized u_1 is the same as the span of u_1.
Here is more of the question:
Screenshot2012-07-29at35312AM.png

if u_1 spans the null space of 2I - A, then that does not explain how u_1 is [tex][1 -1]^T[/tex]
 
Last edited:
I think I understand what's going on now. Here's another example:

Screenshot2012-07-29at50229AM.png


It looks like after you reduce things to row echelon form, you reduce it again so that one of the values = 1. here, x -3/4y = 0. then you put one of the variables on the other side of the equation, so that u_1 becomes [tex][3/4 1 0]^T[/tex]. But I would think it should be [tex][1 3/4 0][/tex]

I'm not sure about u_2 however.
 
You're looking for the solution to (2I-I)x=0, right? So solve
$$(2I-A)\vec{x} = \begin{pmatrix} -2 & -2 \\ 1 & 1 \end{pmatrix}\begin{pmatrix} x \\ y \end{pmatrix} = 0.$$ Forget about nullspaces and eigenspaces for the moment. You're just solving a system of equations.
 
I sort of understand what is going on.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K