Understanding the product topology

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    Product Topology
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the product topology on the Cartesian product of two metric spaces, specifically comparing the product topology T1 with the topology T2 induced by a maximum metric. Participants are exploring the properties of open sets in these topologies and how to visualize open balls in the context of the maximum metric.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in visualizing the problem of showing that the topologies T1 and T2 are the same, particularly in concluding that U x V is in T2.
  • Another participant asks about the appearance of open balls in the product space (X x Y, d) and specifically in R².
  • A participant suggests that open balls in R² can be visualized as circles around a point, but this is challenged by another participant who notes that this is not accurate with the maximum metric.
  • One participant struggles to visualize the concept and seeks hints on how to represent the open balls geometrically.
  • A later reply proposes considering the set of points in R² that are a fixed distance from a point (x0, y0) as a way to visualize the open balls.
  • Another participant prompts a question about identifying points that are a distance of 1 away from (0,0), leading to a discussion about the absolute value and the resulting geometric figure.
  • Finally, a participant concludes that the figure formed by points a distance of 1 from (0,0) is two line segments of length 2, resembling a "cross."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the visualization of open balls under the maximum metric, with differing views on how to accurately represent them geometrically. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific properties of the topologies in question.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the participants' understanding of the geometric implications of the maximum metric, and the discussion reflects varying degrees of familiarity with the concepts involved.

tomkoolen
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I am having some trouble visualising the following problem and I hope someone will be able to help me:

Let (X, dx) and (Y,dy) be metric spaces and consider their product topology X x Y (T1) and the topology T2 induced by the metric d((x1,y1),(x2,y2)) = max(dx(x1,x2),dy(y1,y2)) so the maximum of their respective metrics.

I have to show that the topologies are the same. I understand that I have to show that the basis opens of T1 should be unions of basis opens of T2 and vice versa.

T1 => T2 is not giving me a hard time: If (x,y) is in U x V, with U open in X and V open in Y, there exist open balls respectively for x in U and for y in V. The minimum of these radii give a ball for (x,y) in U x V. I know that this is the way and I know how to write it down mathematically correct but I am not sure how to conclude that U x V is in T2 now.

T2 => T1 is giving me more struggles. I can create an open ball around (x0,y0) but then I can't visualise the path my solution should follow.

If someone could give me some advice, I would be very grateful!
 
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What do open balls in ##(X\times Y,d)## look like? For example, what do the open balls look like in ##\mathbb{R}^2##?
 
Thanks for replying! In R2 I could just visualise them as circles around a point (x,y) right?
 
No, not with this metric.
 
I really don't see it. Of course the metric maps R x R ---> R, for example the distance between (1,2) and (2,4) would be 2 but I don't know how to "draw" it. This is the part where I need a hint.
 
Oh I think I should think about the set of all elements of R2 that have fixed distance from (x0,y0) and draw that right?
 
What are the points a distance of 1 away from (0,0)?
 
{(a,1), (1,b), (c,-1), (-1,d)} with a,b,c,d smaller or equal to 1?
ABsolute value!
 
So what figure does that form if you draw it?
 
  • #10
Two line segments of length 2, a "cross"
 

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