Understanding the Trefoil Knot and Its Function on a Torus

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the properties of the trefoil knot and its relationship with functions defined on a torus. Participants explore the implications of using different ratios in the function and the conditions under which a knot is formed, particularly focusing on the significance of the parameters being relatively prime.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether any function of the form y=(m/n)x is equivalent to a function y=(p/q)x where (p,q)=1.
  • Another participant confirms that such functions are indeed equivalent.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of (p,q) being relatively prime, with one participant explaining that this condition relates to the number of rotations around the torus and that common factors would cancel out.
  • A later reply raises the question of what occurs when p and q are not relatively prime, prompting further exploration of specific cases, such as a (2,2) curve.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the equivalence of the functions and the significance of the parameters being relatively prime, but the implications of non-relatively prime parameters remain a point of inquiry without a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with algebra and algebraic topology, which may influence their understanding of the concepts discussed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying topology, knot theory, or mathematical functions on surfaces, particularly in relation to toroidal structures.

sammycaps
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So in the process of giving us a crude definition of a trefoil knot, our professor talks a bit about a function on a torus.

If we view the torus as the identification of sides of a square, and define a function y=(p/q)x, then we may only go from the bottom left corner (0,0) to the top right corner (1,1) (I guess forming a knot) if (p,q)=1. Two questions...

1) Isn't any function y=(m/n)x the same as a function y=(p/q)x with (p,q)=1?

2) Is there a simple way to understand why the (p,q) must be 1, or is it something not so trivial?
 
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I should mention, my algebra and algebraic topology isn't great. I've studied a good bit of a semester of introductory undergraduate group theory, but not much else. The treatment of knots in my topology class is purely as an example of Van Kampen's theorem and not as a topic in and of itself, so I know very little about them.
 
sammycaps said:
1) Isn't any function y=(m/n)x the same as a function y=(p/q)x with (p,q)=1?
yes.
2) Is there a simple way to understand why the (p,q) must be 1, or is it something not so trivial?
it's just that if p and q are relatively prime then they tell you the actual number of rotations around the torus. p/q is just the slope of a straight line on the flat torus. Any common factors cancel out.
 
lavinia said:
yes.

it's just that if p and q are relatively prime then they tell you the actual number of rotations around the torus. p/q is just the slope of a straight line on the flat torus. Any common factors cancel out.

So if we take p and q not relatively prime rotations around the torus, what happens?
 
sammycaps said:
So if we take p and q not relatively prime rotations around the torus, what happens?

try the case of a (2,2) curve. You can draw a picture on a rectangle with opposite edges identified.
 

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