Understanding Triple Product Rules in Vector Calculus

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application and implications of the triple product rules in vector calculus, particularly in relation to the operator ∇ (nabla). Participants explore the conditions under which these rules hold and the differences when applied to the nabla operator compared to standard vector operations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the triple product identity A.(B x C) = B.(C x A) = C.(A x B) and questions its applicability to ∇, leading to the expression ∇.(F x G) = [∇ x F].G - F.[∇ x G].
  • Another participant argues that the rule does not apply to ∇ because it acts to the right, comparing it to the single variable rule D(uv) = u(Dv) + (Du)v.
  • A question is raised about whether the triple product rules are universal, specifically regarding the triple cross product A x (B x C) and its applicability to the nabla operator.
  • It is noted that algebraic vector identities may not hold for ∇, emphasizing that ∇ is not bidirectional and thus identities involving the interchange of vectors do not generally apply.
  • A participant provides examples showing that if F or G is constant, the nabla operator can be manipulated in certain ways, leading to the expression ∇.[F x G] = G.[∇ x F] - F.[∇ x G].

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the universality of the triple product rules when applied to the nabla operator. There is no consensus on whether these rules can be generalized, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific conditions under which they apply.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the application of vector identities to the nabla operator, particularly regarding the directionality of ∇ and the conditions under which certain manipulations are valid.

quietrain
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triple product is given by

A.(B x C) = B. (C x A) = C. (A x B)


so why is ∇.(F x G) = [∇ x F].G - F.[∇ x G] ?




if i let A = ∇, B = F , C = G,

then ∇.(F x G) = - F .( ∇ x G) = G.(∇ x F)
its as though they carried the 3rd term over to add to the 2nd term ?
 
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wow.
That rule does not apply to ∇, because ∇ acts to the right.
It is very much like the single variable rule
D(uv)=u(Dv)+(Du)v
Where is D were bidirectional we would have
Duv=uDv=uvD
 
? you mean the triple product rules is not universal?

so the triple cross product A x (BxC) is also not applicable for the del?

so i won't get B(A.C)-C(A.B)?

so how do i know that the del will give me Duv=uDv=uvD ?

is there an identity or i must proof from scratch?
 
In general an algebric vector identity will not be an identity for ∇.
A.(B x C) = B. (C x A) = C. (A x B)
A x (BxC)=B(A.C)-C(A.B)
are not always true for ∇
In most cases this is because ∇ is not bidirectional.
Thus a vector identity where the vectors change places tends not to hold for ∇
For example
A.B=B.A
but
∇.A!=A.∇

For
∇.[F x G] = G.[∇ x F] - F.[∇ x G]
Suppose F is constant then we have
∇.[F x G] = - F.[∇ x G]
F can move through ∇ because it is constant
Suppose G is constant then we have
∇.[F x G] =G.[∇ x F]
G can move through ∇ because it is constant
The case where neither F nor G need be constant is the sum of these
∇.[F x G] =G.[∇ x F] - F.[∇ x G]
 
wow... i have more to learn

thanks!
 

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