Uniform Circular Motion, Find the Tension

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a scenario where a father spins his child on a cart using a rope while on a conical hill. The objective is to determine the tension in the rope required for the cart to maintain a specific angular velocity while considering the incline of the hill and the forces acting on the system.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the forces acting on the cart, including tension, normal force, and weight. There is an exploration of the coordinate system used for summing forces and the relationship between centripetal acceleration and the incline of the hill. Questions arise regarding the correct interpretation of the radius in relation to the rope length and the components of tension.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering suggestions for clarifying the setup and questioning assumptions about the motion of the cart. Some guidance has been provided regarding the need to consider the components of tension and how they relate to the forces acting on the cart.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of the need for a diagram to better visualize the problem. Participants are also addressing the potential confusion regarding the definitions of variables and the implications of the incline on the forces involved.

Hoophy
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IMPORTANT!
TEXT IN GREEN HAS BEEN ADDED AND IS CORRECT
TEXT IN RED HAS BEEN REMOVED AND IS INCORRECT

1. Homework Statement

Question: An energetic father stands at the summit of a conical hill as he spins his 25 kg child around on a 5.7 kg cart with a 2.3-m-long rope.
The sides of the hill are inclined at 22∘.
He keeps the rope parallel to the ground, and friction is negligible.
What rope tension will allow the cart to spin with the 16 rpm

Homework Equations


My variables and constants:
Child Mass = mchild = 25 kg
Cart Mass = mcart = 5.7 kg
Rope Length = L = 2.3 m
Radius = r = Lcos(22∘) = 2.3 m
Hill Grade = θ = 22∘
Angular Velocity = ω = 16 rpm = 1.67551608 rad/s
Tension = T
Total Mass = m = mchild + mcart
Centripetal Acceleration = ac
g = 9.8 m/s2
Weight = w = mg

The Attempt at a Solution


a) I drew a free body diagram with
1) Tension pointing North-West (up the slope and parallel to the surface)
2) Normal Force pointing North-East (perpendicular to the surface)
3) Weight pointing down
b) I defined my coordinate system as:
1) Positive x is up the slope and parallel to the surface
2) Positive y is parallel with the Normal Force and perpendicular to the surface (pointing away from the ground, into the sky)
hillcart.PNG

c) I summed the forces in the x axis:
Fx: mac*cos(θ) = T - mg*sin(θ)
d) I isolated Tension:
T = mac*cos(θ) + mg*sin(θ)
e) I found ac:
ac = ω2r
f) I substituted ac into my equation from (d):
T = mω2r*cos(θ) + mg*sin(θ)
!) T = mω2(L*cos(θ))*cos(θ) + mg*sin(θ)
g) I plugged in known values:
T = (25 kg + 5.7 kg)(1.67551608 rad/s)2(2.3 m) + (25 kg + 5.7 kg)(9.8 m/s2)*sin(22∘)
T = (25 kg + 5.7 kg)(1.67551608 rad/s)2((2.3 m)*cos(22∘))*cos(22∘) + (25 kg + 5.7 kg)(9.8 m/s2)*sin(22∘)
h) I computed Tension as T = 310.928 N = 310 N
T = 283.111 N = 280 N

4. A note
310 N is not the correct answer, nor is 310.928 N. Also I do not know what the correct answer is...
I was wondering if someone could help me figure out what it is that I am doing incorrectly?

I really appreciate the help, thanks in advance!
Thank you so much for helping me with this problem @TSny! :smile:
 

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It would be helpful if you could post a diagram.
Hoophy said:
c) I summed the forces in the x axis:
Fx: mac = T - mg*sin(θ)

Does the cart move on a horizontal circle? If so, would the centripetal acceleration be parallel to your x-axis which is along the slope?
 
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TSny said:
It would be helpful if you could post a diagram.Does the cart move on a horizontal circle? If so, would the centripetal acceleration be parallel to your x-axis which is along the slope?
I have edited my post to include a drawing.

I see...
So would I need to do:
Fx: maccos(θ) = T - mg*sin(θ) ?
Thanks. :smile:
 
Hoophy said:
I have edited my post to include a drawing.

I see...
So would I need to do:
Fx: maccos(θ) = T - mg*sin(θ) ?
Thanks. :smile:
Yes. Looks good.

Does r equal the length of the rope?
 
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Yes. Looks good.

Does r equal the length of the rope?
Would I be able to replace all previous instances of "r" with (Rope_Length)cos(θ) ?
 
Hoophy said:
Would I be able to replace all previous instances of "r" with (Rope_Length)cos(θ) ?
Sounds right
 
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It may help if you consider the components of the tension. All of the tension in the rope does not account for the centripetal acceleration.
One component of the tension counters the weight, which in turn could affect the normal force. What new set of equations would you end up with if you introduce components of the tension?
 
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TSny said:
Sounds right
That did the trick, thank you so much for all of your help!

I have amended my post with the correct process in case anyone with a similar question stumbles upon this thread.
 
Hoophy said:
That did the trick, thank you so much for all of your help!

I have amended my post with the correct process in case anyone with a similar question stumbles upon this thread.
Good work
 
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