Unusual Connections: a, c, d, e, l, r, and x

[BicycleTree]

What do the following letters have in common that other letters do not?

Part I:
a c d e x

Part II:
e l r x

 

[bjr_jyd15]

just to clarify...are we comparing part 1 to part 2? or part 1 and 2 to all OTHER letters?

thanks

 

[BicycleTree]

It's two different questions. First part I vs all the other letters is one question, then part II vs all the other letters is the second question. The parts are not related except they both have to do with cursive letters.

 

[bjr_jyd15]

What do the following letters have in common that other letters do not?

Part I:
a c d e x

Highlight to see...
These letters all have equal counterparts when written in capital cursive and captial script.

Part II:
e l r x

These letters start with one vertical line in the 'e', then two with the 'l', and three vertical lines in the 'r' and 4 in the 'x' when written in lowercase cursive.

 

[minger]

Huh? Capital cursive A doesn't look the same as capital script...could you clarify a little more. I also don't get the 3 vertical lines in an r...maybe our school taught cursive different...

 

[BicycleTree]

bjr, what is the difference between capital cursive and capital script? I don't see what you mean by only 1 (approximately) vertical line on e.

I think I need to describe my handwriting. The answers only involve lowercase letters. I have posted a picture on the General Discussion forum here: https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3100 (you'll probably have to wait a while until it gets approved). The first line is what my writing looks like when the letters are inside a word, and the second line is what it looks like when they are at the beginning of a word (hint).

Also, on reflection, I must make the following change to Part I: I must include the letter u as well. So Part I is a c d e u x.

I actually don't always write the letters this way, sometimes or often I do put a leading tail on letters like a, q, v, and x at the beginning of a word. But for the purposes of the brain teaser, nevermind that.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I finally got a look at the cursive letters you are talking about. I still haven't figured out the answer to the question. However, I note differences between the b, c, and d as well as the initial e, and the initial v in that image and the way that I write them. I doubt that there is any 'official' way to write cursively, it just depends upon how you were taught and how you developed your own style as you got older.

Having said that, I note that the connected c in the image is impossible. Also, the trailing tails on certain letters are significantly different between initials and connecteds and that doesn't really make any sense. Furthermore, the leading tails on characters depend upon the trailing tail of the preceding character. An i written after a b looks different from an i written after an h. Now I am waiting to find out the answer.

 

[BicycleTree]

Well, on the second row I had to alter the trailing tails a little bit so that the status of the leading tails showed up more clearly. The trailing tails aren't different really (anyway the only difference in the image is qualitative line length). I don't know what you're talking about with the c. The letters in the alphabet are not written as a continuous block (that's the way it was done on the site) but as if they were each part of a word on themselves and, say, the g is not supposed to be connected in the top row of the image to the f or the h.

Yes, there is some variation, e.g. if the c _actually_ were in a word after a "b," the leading tail would be higher, although it would be as shown (low) if after something like an i.

The two puzzles I designed, however, should be unambiguous in the alphabet as shown.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The connected c has three tails.

 

[BicycleTree]

I don't know what you mean.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Look at the top right hand corner of the connected letter c. Near the very tip of the letter there is a cusp. It is not large, but it is quite visible. I challenge you to write the letter that way. I tried and was unable. BTW, another point about the letters is that the connected x is rather goofy looking with a straight line for a leading tail that doesn't quite smootly transition into the rest of the character. One last comment. Is there any way for you to present the letters so that they do not run into each other. It is difficult to see where some individuals end and the next one starts. Can you put some time limit on this thing? Curiousity is eating me up.

 

[BicycleTree]

Ah, I didn't notice that. It should just be an ordinary c without a serif.

 

[BicycleTree]

All right, I'll give the answer to part II, e l r x (in white): These are the letters that are written inside a word without a sharp change in direction.[/color]

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I see your point, but it's certainly a matter of style. I was taught to write my lower case cursive r with a sharp turn in the upper left corner. I no longer do so, but then I write my lower case b without any sharp turns either.

 

[BicycleTree]

Well, that's why I provided the alphabet. I actually had to trim the r from the place I got it from on the site so that it no longer had a sharp turn.

Part I is slightly more interesting in my opinion, though still a simple property.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I actually had to trim the r from the place I got it from on the site so that it no longer had a sharp turn.

It would have been much easier to alter the brain teaser rather than alter the image.

 

[BicycleTree]

Answer to part I: a c d e u x are the letters that look like printed letters when written as at the beginning of a word.[/color]

The x is kind of borderline but I included it because there are no extra lines in it, the only difference is one of the lines is wavy.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I don't think much of this puzzle.


1. I don't see any similarity in the block e which has a straight horizontal line, and the cursive e which does not.

2. As you said yourself, block x is different from cursive x.

3. The only difference between the cursive o and the block o is that curved tail at the end of the cursive o, same as the difference between cursive a and block a. What is more, all of the letters in your list have curved trailing tails, but none of the associated block letters do.

4. No one writes a cursive d the way it is in the image, it's too hard to do. Same thing goes for cursive e.


The only letter I agree with you on is c, and even there, it's because no one writes it the way it is in your image.

 

[BicycleTree]

Well, I always write printed d's, a's, and u's with tails on them, just as in the image (you're taught to do it that way when you first learn to print). How do you even write a printed "a" without a tail? My criteria was that if the letter had any extra doodle on it, any extra line not in the printed version, it was excluded from the list. An objective, black-and-white difference, not like "this letter is slightly more tilted than this one so they are different."

I don't know what you mean about cursive d and e being too hard to do.

 

[BicycleTree]

Also, most people do not write a sharp horizontal line on the printed e.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I don't know what you mean about cursive d and e being too hard to do.

When I write a cursive d, the upright is an open loop, similar to the one on the cursive h. In order to get the straight line shown on the d in the image, I would either have to lift my pencil off the paper an put it back down in just the right place, or retrace the line exactly. When I am writing at a reasonable speed, I am unable to do either of these. But if I could, then I could do the h that way too.

When I write a cursive e, there is a leading tail. In order to write the e as in the image, I would have to make sure that the path of the pencil as it loops back traces over the starting point. Again, when I am writing at a reasonable speed, I am unable to get it exactly right, so there is always either a visible tail, or a gap.

 

[BicycleTree]

When I write a cursive d, the upright is an open loop, similar to the one on the cursive h. In order to get the straight line shown on the d in the image, I would either have to lift my pencil off the paper an put it back down in just the right place, or retrace the line exactly. When I am writing at a reasonable speed, I am unable to do either of these. But if I could, then I could do the h that way too.

When you print you retrace the d, exactly or inexactly, just as in cursive. Whereas on the printed h you start at the top, like a printed n with a higher stick on the left; you don't start at the bottom and loop up (as in the cursive h).

When I write a cursive e, there is a leading tail. In order to write the e as in the image, I would have to make sure that the path of the pencil as it loops back traces over the starting point. Again, when I am writing at a reasonable speed, I am unable to get it exactly right, so there is always either a visible tail, or a gap.

When you write a printed e there is exactly the same consideration.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

When you print you retrace the d, exactly or inexactly, just as in cursive.

I finally figured out what you mean. You are talking about writing block letters cursively.

 

[BicycleTree]

Well, I don't know, it's just the way I learned to write them. But perhaps it is too sensitive to variation between people. I posted my print alphabet here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3211

Truly a work of art.

Edit: you may have to wait awhile until it gets approved.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

I can't see any difference between your block v and your cursive v. Please tell me what the difference is?

 

[BicycleTree]

The cursive v has a trail coming off the top right part of it.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

So does the block v. Is there any other difference?

 

[JasonRox]

This is a mess.

 

[BicycleTree]

So does the block v. Is there any other difference?

No, it doesn't. The printed v is two straight lines, there is no tail coming off the top right. Yes, that's the only difference.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

We can bat this around forever. I can see a little hook in the top right hand corner of your block v even if you can't. How about the a? The block a has two loops in it, but the cursive only has one.