Upgrading to Mac Tiger: what issues and features should I know about?

[Moonbear]

Okay you Mac people, who has Tiger already? I finally ordered the upgrade. Any issues I should be prepared for when upgrading? Or any tips on finding cool features that might not be intuitive to set up? What kinds of widgets do you have that you just can't do without, and where do I find them? I can't wait!

 

[ComputerGeek]

cool! I love Tiger. some people reported issues with 10.4.0, 10.4.1 and 10.4.2. I have not had any, but Apple will be releasing 10.4.3 in a few days.

 

[Moonbear]

Oh, perfect timing then! I should have Tiger in a few days and can then promptly update.

 

[JamesU]

It's the only mac I can't say I don't like. that's because I've never used it. our school still uses OS 9.2

 

[ComputerGeek]

It's the only mac I can't say I don't like. that's because I've never used it. our school still uses OS 9.2

if you have never used OS X then you cannot even compare it to Classic Mac OS.

I hated Macs before OS X. Now they rock.

 

[Moonbear]

if you have never used OS X then you cannot even compare it to Classic Mac OS.

I hated Macs before OS X. Now they rock.

I agree, before OS X, I could take it or leave it. When I worked in a lab with all Macs running OS 8 or 9 (I can't remember which), I brought my PC laptop with me every day. Now it's the opposite, I work in a lab with PCs running Windows XP (oh, how I hate that!) and I bring my Mac laptop in with me every day so I don't have to work on their cruddy windows machine.

 

[loseyourname]

Did the pre-Tiger version not have the spotlight search function? If so, that is one hell of a feature.

 

[es]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/

 

[JamesU]

so what's so great in OSX?

 

[Moonbear]

Did the pre-Tiger version not have the spotlight search function? If so, that is one hell of a feature.

Nope. That's one of the features I'm looking forward to. Glad to hear you like it. I was hoping it wasn't just being over-hyped.

 

[Moonbear]

so what's so great in OSX?

Here's just the new features in Tiger:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/newfeatures/over200.html

Mostly it saves me from a lot of bruising, because I don't find myself beating my head against a wall several times a day fighting with it like I do with Windows (I've never used Linux on a PC, so don't know how it would compare to that...there definitely are a lot of Linux fans around here, so I would consider that if I had a PC).

 

[JamesU]

what do you find so difficult about windows




?

 

[rho]

what do you find so difficult about windows




?

It's unstable, virus infected and outdated

 

[rho]

http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/automator/

I have never met anyone who has found a use for automator.

The most useful feature in my opinion is dashboard. Spotlight is also useful as is RSS in safari 2.0. You can also highlight words and then right click on them and choose to look them up in the dictionary, which i use sometimes.

 

[xPAGANx]

It's unstable, virus infected and outdated

My system is rock solid.

I don't have any viruses.

I have all of the updates.

How can you say it is unstable? That is totally conditional.

How can Windows be virus infected? It is a computer that gets the virus. They don't come in the retail box.

How is Windows out of date? It has come a long way. I am not arguing it is the best operating system nor that it is not. Windows offers the latest in gaming technology. I don't know how you could argue otherwise. Windows also easily offers the most hardware support. You can't even question that.

 

[ComputerGeek]

so what's so great in OSX?

umm, it is Unix based, it has all the tech of Windows Vista in it right now.

it stays out of your way when you work, unlike windows.

 

[ComputerGeek]

what do you find so difficult about windows




?

nothing is difficult about it, it is just the structure of the system that makes it obnoxious to use.

I find that development on OS X is a lot nicer than windows because the underside is better organized (the directory structure, etc is Unix like which makes it much nicer to work with) than in windows. you get all the GNU tools, LaTeX is super easy to set up and run, everything about it is just much nicer than in windows.

 

[ComputerGeek]

I don't have any viruses.

umm, Windows Worms are rampant because of how easy it is to exploit it, MS is remidying this, but it is still a big problem

I have all of the updates.
How can you say it is unstable? That is totally conditional.

as you should, but that does not protect you from spyware which affects the stability of the system. The fact of the matter is that for most people, Windows becomes infected and messy because most people do not know how to manage a computer. Education is the key, but you cannot educate most of the people because they are past that point in their life or have no interest to go and find someone to teach them.

How can Windows be virus infected? It is a computer that gets the virus. They don't come in the retail box.

you like to parse words?

How is Windows out of date? It has come a long way.

It is out of date because IE has not been updated technology wise in 5 years, the underlying technology is 5 years old or more and there are no added features to the system for 5 years. The service packs have made it more secure, but they have done nothing for advancing the state of windows technology

Windows offers the latest in gaming technology.
I don't know how you could argue otherwise.

no one has. but that is kind of a pointless aspect when most people that have a computer use it for something other than gaming. I have not bought or played a game in nearly 8 years. My priorities are adult priorities and I have to get work done.

Windows also easily offers the most hardware support. You can't even question that.

sure I can. I have come across hardware that does not work under windows but then I plug it into my Linux system and it works right away without any configuration. Unless you are talking about GFX cards or sound cards, Windows hardware support is actually poorer than Linux. Will Windows run on SPARC? will it run on Dragonball? will it run on PPC? will it run on MIPS?

nope. and if your intention was to say that OS X hardware support is sketchy, it certainly is not. you need to buy GFX cards built to work on OpenFirmware, and sound cards are not available, but everything else is a plug in and play.

 

[Moonbear]

I have never met anyone who has found a use for automator.

What does that really do? It sounded like it was just an easy way of creating macros for those who don't know how to do that, though the few times I've wanted to do something like that, it never seemed too hard to do in the first place.

Spotlight sounds great. And it sounds like there's a RPN calculator in dashboard. Is that correct? Does that mean it has advanced functions on it, not just addition/subtraction type stuff?

 

[ComputerGeek]

What does that really do? It sounded like it was just an easy way of creating macros for those who don't know how to do that, though the few times I've wanted to do something like that, it never seemed too hard to do in the first place.

Spotlight sounds great. And it sounds like there's a RPN calculator in dashboard. Is that correct? Does that mean it has advanced functions on it, not just addition/subtraction type stuff?

Apple script is a pain in the butt, and I am a computer science major. Automator makes it easy peasy.

The calculator that comes with Tiger is not RPN, but I am sure there is one out there, and if not, you can code one using Javascript/perl/pything/what ever languages are supported and CSS

 

[ranger]

And it sounds like there's a RPN calculator in dashboard. Is that correct? Does that mean it has advanced functions on it, not just addition/subtraction type stuff?

Here are some key features

• Here are some key features of "RPN Calculator":
  
  · A simple interface aimed at fitting in with the rest of the Mac OS
  · Multiple levels of interface complexity, revealing only the features needed
  · A few interface goodies, including contextual menus where useful
  · Smart copy & paste (concerning complex number recognition)
  · Drag & drop almost everywhere
  · 8 to 4096 element stack, with 8 visible elements at all times
  · 8 memories with mouseover preview of contents
  · Adequate set of built-in scientific functions
  · Special functions, such as Bessel functions
  · Full complex number support with respect to the applicable built-in functions
  · Numerous keyboard shortcuts
  · A compact mode which leaves only the display visible
  · Arbitrary number of user-defined constants
  · Arbitrary number of user-defined functions of up to 10 variables
  · Base conversion between bases ranging from 2 to 36
  · Unit conversion
  · Statistics registers with most common statistical functions
  · Linear systems of up to degree 5
  · Determinants and inverses (up to 5 by 5)
  · Prime number search
  · Factorization and prime factorization
  · Rational number approximation to decimal expansions
  · Extended dynamic range where appropriate via Victor Shoup's NTL
  · Ability to log events during a single session.

One feature I like is the translator (on the dashboard). Its awesome and supports many different languages

EDIT: I didnt know that it does not ship with tiger.You can get it from http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Math-Scientific/RPN-Calculator.shtml

 

[why and how?]

haha, "adult priorities." dissed.

i hate windows for the reason that they crash very easily, and anything i want to do on IE ends up with me getting 5 new viruses and 20 million ads. so then i got firefox. so much nicer. and i never used limewire/bearshare/kazza/anything that would f- up my comp. windows takes forever o search for something, and if i try to search for pictures let's say, itll expect my to put everything in the My Pictures folder, so it will automatically search only in that folder. stuff like that. f-ing windows.

i don't own a mac but i hate windows so much that i started like macs even thought i naver used the new os x.

this is just weird:

 

[ComputerGeek]

EDIT: I didnt know that it does not ship with tiger.You can get it from http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Math-Scientific/RPN-Calculator.shtml

actually, the calculator.app does have RPN functionality in it, and you can expand that to Scientific functionality as well. I thought however that moonbear wanted an RPN Dashboard calculator which does not come in tiger.

 

[Moonbear]

Cool...oh, I don't care where the calculator is or where it comes from, but to have some scientific functionality would be wonderful!

 

[rho]

Cool...oh, I don't care where the calculator is or where it comes from, but to have some scientific functionality would be wonderful!

I use this one click it's not that good looking but it is useful.

 

[Anttech]

umm, it is Unix based, it has all the tech of Windows Vista in it right now.

actually its freebsd not unix... Although both are based on BSD standard one isn't the other...

umm, Windows Worms are rampant because of how easy it is to exploit it, MS is remidying this, but it is still a big problem

So is Linux so is Unix so is OSx... I remeber having a large argument about this before with some people here... The only reason there are more worms, trojans, viruses for Windows is because it has > 90% of the desktop market... People who write these things want them to spread as far and wide as possible. The obvious choice therefore is Windows not OSx.

It is out of date because IE has not been updated technology wise in 5 years, the underlying technology is 5 years old or more and there are no added features to the system for 5 years. The service packs have made it more secure, but they have done nothing for advancing the state of windows technology

IE isn't Windows it is an application you can Choose to use on the Windows OS if you so desire...

Will Windows run on SPARC? will it run on Dragonball? will it run on PPC? will it run on MIPS?

He was talking about Periferals not procs.. Anyway I thought we were talking about OSx... Didnt realize Mac OSx could run on anything (right now) other than PPC?

I use both Windows and Linux for my work... Many tools I need will only run on Windows... I have yet to meet a network engineer who uses OSx as there primary work because...

here is a small list of Unix vunerabilities

http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer/unixsecurity/unix_vuln.html

ALL OS's are insecure, some more than others. but all have vunerabilities, and should be protected accordingaly

 

[rho]

So is Linux so is Unix so is OSx... I remeber having a large argument about this before with some people here... The only reason there are more worms, trojans, viruses for Windows is because it has > 90% of the desktop market... People who write these things want them to spread as far and wide as possible. The obvious choice therefore is Windows not OSx.

It is very difficult to make a virus for OS X because of the systems architecture. The only trojans that have been made for OS X require the root password to install themselves, and most worms require the ability to create a buffer overflow and this is very difficult on any of the current processors in macs.

 

[ranger]

most worms require the ability to create a buffer overflow and this is not possible on any of the current processors in macs.

Cant some intel processors prevent buffer overflow also?

 

[ComputerGeek]

actually its freebsd not unix... Although both are based on BSD standard one isn't the other...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeBSD

I said it was Unix BASED, that is a true statement, you are trying to be picky for no reason.

So is Linux so is Unix so is OSx... I remeber having a large argument about this before with some people here... The only reason there are more worms, trojans, viruses for Windows is because it has > 90% of the desktop market... People who write these things want them to spread as far and wide as possible. The obvious choice therefore is Windows not OSx.

The fact of the matter is that there are no remote exploits for OS X, Linux, or any of the BSDs and to hurt your computer or turn it into a zombie, you need the root password to even get it to run. That is why Worms cannot cause the problems they do on Windows. As for trojans, well I can create a shell script that will delete all your files and then name it something interesting to get you to click on it. and that will work for OS X, Linux and *BSD. The fact is that you cannot protect a user from him/herself which is why I did not talk about trojans. As for Viruses, well, those need to be brought into the system by the user, but to do anything to the system, it needs root privileges after they are run by the user.

IE isn't Windows it is an application you can Choose to use on the Windows OS if you so desire...

uhh, yes it is actually. It is in the kernel space which makes it part of the OS.

He was talking about Periferals not procs.. Anyway I thought we were talking about OSx... Didnt realize Mac OSx could run on anything (right now) other than PPC?

actually, he was talking about Windows having the best hardware support out of the box, which is completely false as I outlined above with Linux.

I use both Windows and Linux for my work... Many tools I need will only run on Windows... I have yet to meet a network engineer who uses OSx as there primary work because...

That is because none have bothered to try using it. anything Linux can do, OS X can do.

here is a small list of Unix vunerabilities

http://www.cs.iastate.edu/~ghelmer/unixsecurity/unix_vuln.html

ALL OS's are insecure, some more than others. but all have vunerabilities, and should be protected accordingaly

The discussion was what made OS X better than windows, and OS X is less vulnerable than windows, no one said it was a brick wall.

 

[xPAGANx]

Where to begin...

as you should, but that does not protect you from spyware which affects the stability of the system. The fact of the matter is that for most people, Windows becomes infected and messy because most people do not know how to manage a computer. Education is the key, but you cannot educate most of the people because they are past that point in their life or have no interest to go and find someone to teach them.

If people are uneducated and can't stick to quality sites that is their problem not mine. Windows does not infect itself. People take that upon themselves. Do not blame Microsoft for the community's ignorance.

you like to parse words?

I simply was making a point that Windows it not the cause of the infection. You are blaming a static product that an end user manipulates.

It is out of date because IE has not been updated technology wise in 5 years, the underlying technology is 5 years old or more and there are no added features to the system for 5 years. The service packs have made it more secure, but they have done nothing for advancing the state of windows technology.

Personally I don't see any serious need to change it. I have been a happy IE user for years. It works well and is the most functional browser I can think of. If someone is worried about security, they can simply disable Active X and what not and take it down to every other browser's level.

no one has. but that is kind of a pointless aspect when most people that have a computer use it for something other than gaming. I have not bought or played a game in nearly 8 years. My priorities are adult priorities and I have to get work done.

Ok so you haven't played a game in nearly 8 years. Does that mean that nobody else has played a game in nearly 8 years? No. Your reasoning is absolutey awful. Your priorities simply do not match everyone elses. There are plenty of people out there that play games and enjoy the capabilities of DirectX.

sure I can. I have come across hardware that does not work under windows but then I plug it into my Linux system and it works right away without any configuration. Unless you are talking about GFX cards or sound cards, Windows hardware support is actually poorer than Linux. Will Windows run on SPARC? will it run on Dragonball? will it run on PPC? will it run on MIPS?

nope. and if your intention was to say that OS X hardware support is sketchy, it certainly is not. you need to buy GFX cards built to work on OpenFirmware, and sound cards are not available, but everything else is a plug in and play.

I think video and sound are pretty freaking important! You are comparing an enterprise OS to a home user OS. Sure you can say Windows Server won't run on SPARC or PPC or whatever too. It simply wasn't designed to. Does that make it a flaw? I don't think so. Just because a DVD won't work in a VHS deck doesn't make it inferior.

Sure linux may provide a lot of hardware support, but it can be a real headache to get some stuff working. Windows makes it easy. How can you knock that? Windows make programs easy to install. Nothing like having dependancy issues and such as you do in Linux.

I do realize Linux has come a long way with package management, but it still doesn't compare to Windows installations.

Linux has potential, but not for the normal person. I have helped many people navigate simple functions in Windows. Linux is far less friendly. It has gotten better there is no arguing, but Linux is more for the enthusiast crowd. I just don't see it catching up to Microsoft anytime soon. A lot of people might pitch a fit about Microsoft, but I have to be honest and commend their hard work. They have pushed out a package that will work with virtually all home PCs. That is an amazing feat considering the variety of hardware out there. On top of that, the installation is a breeze. You don't have to pick which kernel to boot. You don't have to put conditional arguments at the boot prompt to avoid locking up. I am not declaring Linux difficult to install for a computer savy person, but for most people it would be a scary experience.

Windows easily has the largest software library. Linux simply cannot run the apps I use (which a lot of people use). It can run some of them, but not nearly enough. Even some of the apps that do run are buggy.