News US university admissions scandal

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WWGD

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I see nothing exceptional about this. College admissions have been manipulated by many, including the government with its Affirmative Action mickey mouse, so what is the difference? Getting into Harvard, MIT, or Berkeley is not a right to anyone, nor is it necessarily a particularly great advantage. For most students, they can learn just as much at State U, as they can at Harvard. So, what's the big deal?
And from what I hear, at least at the undergrad level, these schools have plenty of classes that are taught by TAs who took the classes themselves just a semester or two prior. The top schools advertise the Nobel winners, top researchers in their staff but these are often too busy traveling to conferences worldwide or doing research at home to have any contact with students, specially undergrads. Do you really think most of these top researchers want to hear how Joe undergrad is doing in their calc classes? Not often, they are hired for their ability to do research that brings $ to their schools, not because they are giftex teachers.
 

WWGD

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For Nobel Prizes, it's faculty (researchers), not undergrad students and for USSC, it's law schools. These are just the most obvious I could think of quickly. Here's the data:
https://www.bestmastersprograms.org/50-universities-with-the-most-nobel-prize-winners/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_law_schools_attended_by_United_States_Supreme_Court_Justices

The top school for both is the same: Harvard. For the USSC, the difference is most stark: All of the justices currently on the bench are from Harvard or Yale (or both). It's a heavily discussed issue/"problem" every time a new USSC justice is nominated.

Huh? I've done no such thing! There are many levels of success and I'm quite happy with mine. You're going to extremes with your interpretations. The only purpose I had for picking these extremes is because of the [relative] data I knew off the top of my head and hoped others would as well. Extreme cases tend to be well known.
Doesn't Harvard graduate more students from other schools? And it was founded in 1636 ( though I have no idea who lost it :)), )way before most other schools, so that there is a larger proportion of students with degrees from Harvard than from smaller, more recent schools?
 
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russ_watters

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Doesn't Harvard graduate more students from other schools? And it was founded in 1636 ( though I have no idea who lost it :)), )way before most other schools, so that there is a larger proportion of students with degrees from Harvard than from smaller, more recent schools?
You can easily google the year the Nobel Prize was first awarded, college sizes by number of students or university research funding and the current makeup of the USSC. Harvard is not unusually large or well funded for research and not the only Ivy League school founded before the USA (which would not explain the present day disparity in the USSC anyway).
 
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WWGD

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You can easily google the year the Nobel Prize was first awarded, college sizes by number of students or university research funding and the current makeup of the USSC. Harvard is not unusually large or well funded for research and not the only Ivy League school founded before the USA (which would not explain the present day disparity in the USSC anyway).
But wouldn't a better yardstick be to determine whether the proportion over time of Harvard/Ivies graduates is significantly higher than that of non-Ivies? It is true what you say about the current court, but, is that anything more than a temporary trend? I am not trying to be argumentative with random what-iffs; I have read that e.g., barely anyone flunks out of the Ivies, that classes are taught by TAs, that over time, someone from an Ivy is , by many measures, as likely to do well as someone from State U. And, while competition with high performers may be beneficial to some, others may thrive in a more low-key environment. I have also seen at the graduate level that quality is pretty uniform ( at least in Math, which I am familiar with) with students from State U presenting their research at the top schools and doing their theses with professors from the top schools. True that those from the top schools are often better prepared, but this is made up for by the difference in the time to finish the thesis. Students from non-top schools often longer to make up for the disparity. Anyway, I will try to do the research and get back with what I find.
 

russ_watters

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But wouldn't a better yardstick be to determine whether the proportion over time of Harvard/Ivies graduates is significantly higher than that of non-Ivies? It is true what you say about the current court, but, is that anything more than a temporary trend?
This analysis is much easier than that because the disparity is so stark (from my link above):

Of the 9 current justices, 4 graduated Harvard law, 4 Yale law. Ruth Bader Ginsberg went to Harvard law and transferred to and graduated from Columbia Law, and counts in both (making Harvard's total 5).

So if you want to be on the USSC today, you basically must have Harvard or Yale on your resume.

In total, 20 justices have come from Harvard, 11 from Yale, 7 from Columbia (RBG counted twice). No other school is represented more than 3 times.

The first Justice who went to law school joined the court in 1846. 48 of 114 total justices have had law degrees; 77% from those three schools.
 

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