Usign postulates to prove validity of a theorem

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    Postulates Theorem
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the validity of proving the theorem X OR 1 = 1 using postulates in a Logic Design course. Participants explore the nature of proofs, the role of axioms and postulates, and the appropriateness of using analogies in mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that their explanation using a circuit analogy demonstrates the theorem's truth, but they received no credit for not proving it mathematically.
  • Another participant asserts that axioms and postulates are synonymous and emphasizes the importance of formal proofs over analogies.
  • A different participant questions the validity of proving statements with postulates, suggesting that postulates cannot be proven themselves.
  • Some participants express frustration with the requirement to prove what they consider obvious truths, arguing that it detracts from their interest in the subject.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of proofs, with one participant stating that a proof should be based on logical deductions rather than analogies.
  • Concerns are raised about the use of symbols in mathematical contexts, with one participant claiming there are no reserved symbols, while another questions the appropriateness of using the gradient symbol for XOR.
  • Several participants express a desire to understand the reasoning behind proofs rather than just memorizing postulates, indicating a divide between mathematical rigor and practical understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the necessity of proving obvious statements or the role of postulates versus axioms. There are competing views on the validity of using analogies in proofs and the appropriateness of certain symbols in mathematical contexts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express differing opinions on the definitions and implications of axioms and postulates, indicating a lack of clarity in their understanding. The discussion also highlights the tension between mathematical rigor and practical application in engineering contexts.

  • #31
haki said:
Ever heard of the uncertainty principle? QM is not a deterministic study but rather an indeterministic study of possibilites.

Can you philosophically defend that QM is not deterministic? The particle is where the particle is. We just can't measure it, which is not the same thing at all.
 
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  • #32
Ever heard of the uncertainty principle?
Sure. It says:

The (infinitely precise) standard deviation of an observable, multiplied by the (infinitely precise) standard deviation of another observable must be at least half the (infinitely precise) expected value of their commutator.

(And, of course, the factor of "one half" is also infinitely precise)


QM is not a deterministic study but rather an indeterministic study of possibilites.
If you think it's that obvious, then you don't understand QM. :wink:
 
  • #33
matt grime said:
Can you philosophically defend that QM is not deterministic? The particle is where the particle is. We just can't measure it, which is not the same thing at all.

Can you prove that the particle has a definite position!? You assume that a particle ought to have a determined position since that is what our human experience would have believed us to be. Aha! If QM would be deterministic then you would be able to explain us the infamous double slit experiment. Please explain it to us. If a particle has a definite position why does the interference pattern emerge and not what our human experience would have assumed? You seam to have all the answers try to answer this one.
 
  • #34
haki said:
Can you prove that the particle has a definite position!? You assume that a particle ought to have a determined position since that is what our human experience would have believed us to be. Aha! If QM would be deterministic then you would be able to explain us the infamous double slit experiment. Please explain it to us. If a particle has a definite position why does the interference pattern emerge and not what our human experience would have assumed? You seam to have all the answers try to answer this one.
The Bohm interpretation is a counterexample to your position.



I hope nobody minds, but I'm going to lock this thread -- it seems that the original discussion has been exhausted, and now people are just trying to "score points". If you really want to discuss philosophy of QM, feel free to start a thread in the QM section, or in the philosophy of science section. (The former is better, methinks)
 
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  • #35
Then clearly, what you should do is go to your teachers, chair of the department, and perhaps the president of the college, and explain clearly exactly what they are to teach you and how! Since they will immediately, if they haven't already, recognize that you already know far more than they do, they certainly would lose no time in complying.
 

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