Using Euler Lagrange in General Relativity

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around using the Euler-Lagrange equation to derive the equations of motion for a two-sphere, specifically focusing on finding the Christoffel symbols. The original poster expresses difficulty in following the derivation provided in their professor's notes, which outline the Lagrangian and the corresponding Euler-Lagrange equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the equations of motion using the Euler-Lagrange equation but struggles with simplifying the terms. They question the derivation of specific terms and express confusion about the treatment of derivatives. Other participants provide insights on the independence of variables and suggest that certain terms may vanish due to lack of explicit dependence.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's concerns, offering clarifications regarding the independence of variables in the Lagrangian framework. Some guidance has been provided, but the original poster still seeks a clearer understanding of the derivation process.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the challenge of applying the Euler-Lagrange formalism in the context of general relativity, particularly when dealing with spherical coordinates and the associated derivatives. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in combining ordinary and partial derivatives in this context.

pixel2001n
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I'm trying to follow a professor's notes for finding Christoffel symbols for a two-sphere. He gives the following two equations:

The Lagrangian for a two sphere:[tex]L = \left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2 + sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2[/tex]

The Euler Lagrange equation:[tex]\frac{d}{ds} \left( \frac{\partial L}{\partial (dx^\mu/ds)} \right ) - \frac{\partial L}{\partial x^\mu} = 0[/tex]

Using these, the professor magically gets:

for [tex]x^\mu = \theta[/tex]:[tex]2\frac{d^2\theta}{ds^2} - 2 sin\theta cos\theta \left(\frac{d\phi}{ds^2}\right)[/tex]

for [tex]x^\mu = \phi[/tex]:[tex]2sin^2 \theta \frac{d^2\phi}{ds^2} + 4 sin\theta cos\theta \left(\frac{d\theta}{ds}\frac{d\phi}{ds}\right)[/tex]

And the Christoffel symbols can be found with minimal effort. The problem is that I can't follow the derivation to get the equations. I feel like this is a really simple thing, yet I'm having trouble getting the same answer as he showed.For example, in the [tex]\theta[/tex] case:

[tex]\frac{d}{ds} \left( \frac{\partial}{\partial (d\theta/ds)} \left( \left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2\right)\right ) <br /> + <br /> \frac{d}{ds} \left( \frac{\partial}{\partial (d\theta/ds)} \left(sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2\right)\right ) <br /> - <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}\left(\left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2\right)<br /> - <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}\left(sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2\right) = 0[/tex]

[tex]2 \frac{d^2\theta}{ds^2}<br /> + <br /> \frac{d}{ds} \left( \frac{\partial}{\partial (d\theta/ds)} \left(sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2\right)\right ) <br /> - <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}\left(\left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2\right)<br /> - <br /> 2 sin\theta cos\theta \left( <br /> \frac{d\phi}{ds} <br /> \right)^2<br /> <br /> <br /> = 0[/tex]

But I don't see how to drive the other terms to zero.

The [tex]\phi[/tex] case is even worse:

[tex] \frac{d}{ds} <br /> \left( <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial (d\phi/ds)}<br /> \left(<br /> \left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2<br /> \right)<br /> \right )<br /> +<br /> \frac{d}{ds} <br /> \left( <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial (d\phi/ds)}<br /> \left(<br /> sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2<br /> \right)<br /> \right )<br /> <br /> -<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial \phi}<br /> \left(<br /> \left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2<br /> \right)<br /> <br /> -<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial \phi}<br /> \left(<br /> sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2<br /> \right)<br /> <br /> = 0[/tex]

[tex] \frac{d}{ds} <br /> \left( <br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial (d\phi/ds)}<br /> \left(<br /> \left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2<br /> \right)<br /> \right )<br /> +<br /> \frac{d}{ds} <br /> \left( <br /> 2 sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)<br /> \right )<br /> <br /> -<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial \phi}<br /> \left(<br /> \left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2<br /> \right)<br /> <br /> -<br /> \frac{\partial}{\partial \phi}<br /> \left(<br /> sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2<br /> \right)<br /> <br /> = 0[/tex]

I'm not sure how to simplify it from there, since each time I try a method I get the wrong answer. I especially don't see where his [tex]+4sin\theta cos\theta[/tex] came from.

All my attempts have failed. It seems like such a trivial thing, since the professor left it out. And obviously the results are correct since they give the correct Christoffel terms. I would be eternally grateful if someone with a working knowledge of how to combine ordinary and partial derivatives could give me a step by step.
 
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[tex]\frac{d}{ds} \left( \frac{\partial}{\partial (d\theta/ds)} \left(sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2\right)\right ) \equiv \frac{d}{ds} \left( \frac{\partial}{\partial y} \left(sin^2\theta \left( z \right)^2\right)\right )[/tex]

This term is zero, because [tex]\left(sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2\right)\right )[/tex]
is not explicitly dependent on [tex]\frac{d\theta}{ds}[/tex].

All your troublesome terms disappear for similar reasons.
 
pixel2001n said:
I'm trying to follow a professor's notes for finding Christoffel symbols for a two-sphere. He gives the following two equations:

The Lagrangian for a two sphere:[tex]L = \left( \frac{d\theta}{ds} \right)^2 + sin^2\theta \left( \frac{d\phi}{ds} \right)^2[/tex]

The Euler Lagrange equation:[tex]\frac{d}{ds} \left( \frac{\partial L}{\partial (dx^\mu/ds)} \right ) - \frac{\partial L}{\partial x^\mu} = 0[/tex]
.

Mentz114 already gave you the explanation. Are you familiar with the Lagrangian approach in ordinary mechanics? If so, recall that is the time derivative of a variable does not appear in the lagrangian the corresponding conjugate momentum is conserved because [tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot q} = 0[/tex] . It's the same type of thing here.

Maybe it would be useful to write the Lagrangian as

[tex]L = \dot{\theta}^2 + \sin^2 \theta (\dot{\phi})^2[/tex]


where a dot indicates a derivative with respect to s, obviously.

And now you must think of [itex]\theta[/itex] and [itex]\dot{\theta}[/itex] as independent variable (same for [itex]\phi[/itex] and [itex]\dot{\phi}[/itex]).

For example,

[tex]\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{\theta}} = 2 \dot{\theta}[/tex]
simply.

Then it's a snap to get the correct result from the E-L equations
 
kdv said:
And now you must think of [itex]\theta[/itex] and [itex]\dot{\theta}[/itex] as independent variable (same for [itex]\phi[/itex] and [itex]\dot{\phi}[/itex]).

That was my problem. Thanks guys.
 

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