Using Lie Groups to Solve & Understand First Order ODE's

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Lie groups to solve and understand first-order ordinary differential equations (ODEs). Participants explore the theoretical underpinnings of Lie theory, symmetry analysis, and the challenges they face in self-studying these concepts. The conversation includes references to specific texts and personal experiences with learning the material.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses interest in understanding first-order ODEs through the lens of Lie theory, mentioning the role of one-parameter groups in solving separable equations and the implications for change of variables.
  • Another participant recommends several books on symmetry analysis, suggesting that local symmetries can reduce the order of ODEs and that finding symmetries systematically is complex for first-order ODEs.
  • There is a mention of Edgardo Cheb-Terrab's papers on symmetry analysis and ODE solvers, highlighting the perceived power of symmetry analysis for solving nonlinear ODEs.
  • Some participants share their struggles with Emanuel's book on Lie groups, indicating that it contributed to a mental block in their learning process.
  • One participant suggests a collaborative approach to studying Emanuel's book by summarizing chapters and discussing them, while another expresses a preference for different notation in the treatment of Lie groups.
  • There is a suggestion to potentially move the discussion to a dedicated thread for Emanuel's book, indicating a desire for a more structured exploration of the material.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the effectiveness of different books and methods for learning about Lie groups and symmetry analysis. There is no consensus on the best approach or materials, and some participants acknowledge their ongoing struggles with the subject matter.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding and the challenges posed by the complexity of the material. There is an acknowledgment of the need for clearer notation and the difficulties in finding systematic methods for identifying symmetries in first-order ODEs.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in the application of Lie groups to differential equations, particularly those seeking resources for self-study or collaborative learning approaches.

  • #31
bolbteppa said:
In other words it does indeed seem the general theorem can be confirmed by basic calculus. The wikipedia definition section for the exponential map seems to confirm this.

I find no demonstration of the general result by ordinary calculus in that article. I don't even find a precise statement of the result.

I think a result for matrix groups can be shown by ordinary calculus because matrix groups are special. In a matrix group x1 = T_x(x,y,\alpha)) is a linear function in x and y. Hence higher order partial derivatives of x_1 with respect to x or y vanish.

Problem 2.2 in Emmanuel p 17 uses the example of the group defined by
x_1 = (x^2 + \alpha x y)^{1/2}
y_1 = \frac{xy}{(x^2 + \alpha x y)^{1/2}}

It would interesting to discuss the specifics of expanding a function of (x_1,y_1) in Taylor series.

It won't do any good to rant at me about how the result is obvious from differential geometry. As I said, I'm perfectly willing to consider that the Taylor expansion in terms of U can only be defined and proven by using concepts from differential geometry. However, for the time being, I'm interested in what can be done with ordinary calculus. People with other interests should feel free to post about them.
 
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  • #33
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