Vertical Take Off: Adopting VTO & Vertical Landing in Commercial Aircraft

[majid hussain]

Why can't we adopt Vertical Take Off (VTO) and vertical landing in commercial aircraft?

 

[russ_watters]

Commercial aircraft have very low power to weight ratios. Putting in bigger engines or engines that don't work as well at high speed is a trade-off that isn't worth it.

 

[majid hussain]

Umm... can u imagine flood recovery aircraft..? It can take off and land during flood

 

[SteamKing]

Umm... can u imagine flood recovery aircraft..? It can take off and land during flood

That's not an application for a commercial aircraft, though.

They already have aircraft which can land and take off during floods - they're called helicopters.

 

[billy_joule]

Umm... can u imagine flood recovery aircraft..? It can take off and land during flood

Why would comercial (ie long haul) aircraft be used in flooded areas? What advantage does it have over helicopters (Or Osprey I guess)?

Can you imagine doing this with a VTOL 747? The Rescuee would be cooked to a crisp in the jetblast

 

[majid hussain]

That's not an application for a commercial aircraft, though.

They already have aircraft which can land and take off during floods - they're called helicopters.

But think about airplanes in a flooded airport

 

[billy_joule]

But think about airplanes in a flooded airport

I'd guess the percentage of all commercial flights that are grounded due to runway flooding is around 0.0001% ie totally inconsequential, or do you have evidence to the contrary?
Even if it where a problem the obvious, and cheapest solution would be better airport design.

Why not calculate how many more engines a 747 would require for VTO? Do you think it's a viable aircraft design?

 

[SteamKing]

But think about airplanes in a flooded airport

If the airplanes at a flooded airport didn't take off before the flood, then there's something wrong besides the planes not being VTOL capable.

 

[Ronie Bayron]

But think about airplanes in a flooded airport

You mean the below?

 

[majid hussain]

You mean the below?

This is an amphibian aircraft so it can land and take off from water...but what about this below pic.

 

[majid hussain]

This is an amphibian aircraft so it can land and take off from water...but what about this below pic.

 

[russ_watters]

Airports are designed not to flood, so if they do it must be due to a rare/significant natural disaster. It doesn't make sense to design commercial airplanes to operate in such rare/extreme conditions. Heck, if the airport is flooded, the passengers can't get there anyway!

 

[gjonesy]

They aren't practical in the sense that for a large aircraft to have VTO and landing capability the engine thrust has to be scaled up enormously, they'd have to carry more fuel they would weigh more so their payload capability would be limited. Even tilt wing and tilt rotor aircraft have an upper limit on lift capacity (power to weight). We do have aircraft called air cranes which have a larger lifting capacity (these are basically helicopters) designed and propose built to lift heavy loads. But even if you could modify one to carry passengers you wouldn't have the speed the range or the altitude of any traditional aircraft design.

 

[gjonesy]

Just to give you an Idea of the thrust involved to achieving VTOL in a jet aircraft here are the numbersHarrier Jump Jet, power to weightThrust

15,000 lbf (66.7 kN)

21,800 lbf (97.0 kN)

21,800 lbf (97.0 kN)

24,750 lbf (110 kN)

23,500 lbf (105 kN)
Maximum take-off weight
(short takeoff)

17,000 lb (7,710 kg)

26,000 lb (11,800 kg)

26,200 lb (11,900 kg)

31,000 lb (14,100 kg)

31,000 lb (14,100 kg)
F135 VTOL raptor power to weight

Thrust/weight
• full fuel:
• 50% fuel:

0.87
1.07

0.90
1.04

0.75
0.91

F136 is capable of producing more thrust than the 43,000 lbf (190 kN) of early F135s. In testing, the F135 has demonstrated a maximum thrust of over 50,000 lbf
Max takeoff weight

70,000 lb class (31,800 kg)

60,000 lb class (27,300 kg)

70,000 lb class (31,800 kg)

 

[Nidum]

STOL is a more practical idea than VTOL for commercial aircraft .

http://www.zenithair.com/stolch801/design/design.html

 

[Nidum]

http://www.vikingair.com/viking-aircraft/dhc-5-buffalo
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=De_Havilland_Canada_DHC-5_Buffalo&oldid=631980550
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=De_Havilland_Canada_DHC-5_Buffalo&oldid=631980550