Volume constraint in micro-canonical derivation of statistical physics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of volume constraints in the micro-canonical ensemble of statistical physics, particularly in the context of deriving distributions. Participants explore whether a constant volume is necessary for the system to be considered closed and how this relates to energy levels and their dependence on volume.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the necessity of a constant volume in the micro-canonical ensemble, suggesting that introducing a volume constraint could ensure the system remains closed.
  • Another participant notes that energy levels εi are functions of both particle number N and volume V, implying that changes in volume affect energy levels continuously.
  • A subsequent reply reiterates that while the volume constraint is not explicitly used, the dependence of energy levels on volume suggests that fixed energy levels would necessitate a constant volume.
  • One participant offers a perspective that aligns with the previous points but does not provide additional clarification or challenge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the necessity of a volume constraint in the micro-canonical ensemble. Multiple viewpoints regarding the implications of volume changes on energy levels and system closure remain present.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of volume changes on the micro-canonical ensemble and the assumptions underlying energy level constancy. The discussion does not resolve these uncertainties.

Philip Koeck
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Another question about the use of the micro-canonical ensemble in deriving distributions.

On the Wikipedia-page the authors mention that the total volume of the system has to be constant.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose–Einstein_statistics#Derivation_from_the_microcanonical_ensemble

On the other hand this statement is not used as a constraint or in any other way that I can see.

In a way it would however make sense to introduce a volume constraint in order to make sure the system is closed.
If V is not constant (meaning W is not zero), but U is constant, then Q is not zero and the system is not closed (at least for an ideal gas).

Does anybody know about volume constraints in the microcanonical picture?
 
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In E = ∑niεi one has generally E = ∑niεi(N,V). Each εi changes in a continuous manner if V is vhanged infinetely slowly.
 
Last edited:
Lord Jestocost said:
In E = ∑niεi one has generally E = ∑niεi(N,V). Each εi changes in a continuous manner if V is vhanged infinetely slowly.
So the volume constraint is not used explicitly, but if the energy levels ei depend on the volume then the assumption of fixed energy levels implies a constant volume.
Is that correct?
 
One can see it in this way.
 

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