Volume Effect of the Proton in Hydrogen Atom

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem from Shankar regarding the volume effect of the proton in a hydrogen atom. Participants are tasked with calculating the first-order shift in the ground-state energy due to a modification in the potential energy when the proton is treated as a uniformly dense charge distribution rather than a point charge.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to formulate a perturbated Hamiltonian and calculate the first-order perturbation but encounters discrepancies in the expected results.
  • Some participants express confusion over differing coefficients in their calculations, questioning the source of the 2/5 coefficient in the expected answer.
  • Others suggest integrating the perturbation in spherical coordinates and making approximations for the exponential terms, while also noting challenges in achieving the correct order of terms in their integrals.
  • There are discussions about specific integrals and their coefficients, with participants sharing their attempts and frustrations in matching the expected results.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants actively sharing their methods and questioning each other's approaches. Some guidance has been offered regarding integration techniques and approximations, but there is no clear consensus on the correct method or outcome yet.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the assumption that certain approximations, such as Exp[-R/a0] being approximately 1, are valid. There is also a noted difficulty in reconciling different results from their calculations, indicating potential misunderstandings or misapplications of the perturbation theory.

gispiamp
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This Prob is from Shankar, 17.2.3
"we assumed that the proton is a point charge e. If the proton is a uniformly dense charge distribution of radius R, the interaction is modified as
V(r)= -2(e)^2/(2R) + (er)^2/(2(R)^3) r<R
= -e^2/r r>R

Calculate 1st Order shift in the ground-state energy of H, due to this modification
Assume Exp[-R/a0]~1. (Correct answer is E(1)=2(eR)^2/(5(a0)^3))"

I try ro make perturbated Hamiltonian term to use |nlm>
H=T+V=T-e^2/r+e^2/r+V=H0+H`

H` is V+e^2/r (this H` gives zero when r>R)

and calculate 1st order purtubation. but it doesn't give correct answer

I think the method I used is something wrong.(because calculation has no error)

Please show me the way~
 
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Well I am unable to get the same shift as your answer. I get:

\frac{16}{15}\frac{e^2R^2}{a_0^3}

So I have no idea where they get the 2/5 coefficient. I could be doing something wrong as well.
 
nickjer said:
Well I am unable to get the same shift as your answer. I get:

\frac{16}{15}\frac{e^2R^2}{a_0^3}

So I have no idea where they get the 2/5 coefficient. I could be doing something wrong as well.

how could you calculate it? please explain it to me
 
Well integrate your H' from 0 to R in spherical coords. Then make the approximation for your exponentials at the end.
 
nickjer said:
Well integrate your H' from 0 to R in spherical coords. Then make the approximation for your exponentials at the end.

Hm.. using Hydrogen atom's e.ft, |100>, and calculating <100|H`|100> in spherical coords. I tried that way before I ask. but It doesn't gives same answer.

main Integration is
I_n= \int {r^n}{e^(\frac{r}{a_0})}

and n=4,2,1. with some coeff. It doesn't give R^2 and a_0^3

Is that wrong?

may be I tried 6~10 times... I'm tired........
 
Well you need to write out the whole integral. And carefully solve for it. Then expand out the exponentials with the 'R' term in it. I expanded them out to first order in R, to get a similar answer they got.
 
nickjer said:
Well you need to write out the whole integral. And carefully solve for it. Then expand out the exponentials with the 'R' term in it. I expanded them out to first order in R, to get a similar answer they got.

to get higer order of R, I expand exponential term to 1st order

but they doesn't give correct order. I_4's coefficient is R^(-3) and Integral gives R^(5) but this order vanished and R^(3) and R^(2) remains. that's the problem

let C=2R/a_0, x=2r/a_0,

(dummy r zero to n)
I_n gives -exp[-C]*\sum[nPr*C^(n-r)]+n!

and I_1+I_2+I_4 with some coeff is the wrong answer I solved.
Hm..... I don't know what's wrong with this...
 

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