##W' \rightarrow \tau \nu## not Jacobian?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the decay modes of the hypothetical particle W', specifically the decay process ##W' \rightarrow \tau \nu## and its comparison to the decay modes ##W' \rightarrow (e/\mu) \nu##. Participants explore the absence of a Jacobian peak in the tau decay mode and the implications of additional neutrinos on the decay spectrum.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the decay mode ##W' \rightarrow \tau \nu## does not exhibit a Jacobian peak, unlike the decay modes involving electrons or muons.
  • It is suggested that the decay of the tau lepton contributes additional missing transverse energy, affecting the observed spectrum.
  • One participant proposes that reconstructing the tau could yield a similar peak, but acknowledges that the decay products lead to a different spectrum due to the presence of neutrinos.
  • Another participant notes that additional neutrinos can smear out the spectrum, affecting the back-to-back nature of the decay products.
  • There is a reference to a figure from a paper that illustrates the expected shapes of the decay spectra, with some participants expressing confusion about the interpretation of the plots.
  • One participant discusses the relationship between the coupling constants and the presence of a Jacobian peak, suggesting that the expectation of such a peak may depend on the angle ##\theta_E## related to the couplings of the W' to different generations of particles.
  • Participants clarify that the W' is a hypothetical particle predicted by beyond the Standard Model (BSM) theories, and that the discussion is based on simulations rather than observed phenomena.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the presence of a Jacobian peak in the decay of W' to tau neutrinos, with some suggesting it is dependent on specific parameters while others remain uncertain about the implications of the decay mechanisms.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific figures and papers, indicating a reliance on theoretical models and simulations. There is an acknowledgment of the hypothetical nature of the W' particle and the associated predictions.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in particle physics, particularly those studying beyond the Standard Model theories and decay processes of hypothetical particles, may find this discussion relevant.

ChrisVer
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I don't understand why the ##W' \rightarrow \tau \nu## doesn't show a Jacobian peak whereas the ##W' \rightarrow (e/\mu) \nu## decay modes do...??
Is it because the ##\tau## decays even further (before measured) and gives additional Missing Transverse Energy? Is it the same for [itex]W \rightarrow \tau \nu[/itex] and [itex]W \rightarrow (e/ \mu) \nu[/itex]?
 
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If you reconstruct the τ, you'll get the same peak. If you take the decay products, your spectrum will look different because you are missing at least two neutrinos then. The spectrum then depends on the decay mechanism.
 
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So for larger invariant masses reconstructions you will have a "Jacobian" shape, while for lower the spectrum will become flatter (because of the extra neutrino)?
 
What do you mean with "larger invariant masses reconstructions"?

Additional neutrinos smear out the spectrum. The remaining decay products and the initial neutrino don't have to be back to back any more.
 

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Did you read the associated paper (CMS-PAS EXO-12-011)? If not, why not? If so, why didn't you point us to it and the part in the paper you didn't understand?

The red and the blue show Jacobians. The red and the blue in the plot right under that show peaks and a low mass non-resonant tail. The green shows no peak in the lower plot, just the non-resonant part, so of course it won't show a Jacobian in the upper part.
 
Vanadium 50 said:

yes, sorry, I misunderstood the "the plot right under that" + the context of the associated paper.
Vanadium 50 said:
The red and the blue show Jacobians. The red and the blue in the plot right under that show peaks and a low mass non-resonant tail. The green shows no peak in the lower plot, just the non-resonant part, so of course it won't show a Jacobian in the upper part.

So it seemed to me and that's weird.
It seems that it's not true that we don't expect a Jacobian peak from the W'->tau nu, but whether we expect one or not depends on the ##\theta_E## of the W' (that's what the colored lines are for)...
##\theta_E## is somewhat connected with how large/small the couplings to the two light and the heavy generations are and so the Universality of the model. If ## \cot \theta_E = 1## then the couplings to the generations are universal (NUGIM= SSM), whereas for other values the coupling to tau or to e/mu is enhanced.

and it seems that as the cotangent approaches 1 (SSM) we get the Jacobian shape...
 
  • #10
While the post is tagged "A" so that most readers sophisticated enough to understand it would know, it does bear a mention that a W' is a hypothetical BSM particle that is being searched for at the LHC and elsewhere, and that this paper merely describes one version of this hypothetical particle, rather than an actually observed phenomena.
 
  • #11
ohwilleke said:
While the post is tagged "A" so that most readers sophisticated enough to understand it would know, it does bear a mention that a W' is a hypothetical BSM particle that is being searched for at the LHC and elsewhere, and that this paper merely describes one version of this hypothetical particle, rather than an actually observed phenomena.

Yes, the ##W^\prime## is an hypothetical particle which is predicted by some BSM physics...
Such a BSM is the [itex]SU_h(2) \times SU_l(2) \times U_Y(1)[/itex], which breaks down to the SM... Since no BSM physics has been found, this is an hypothetical model...and the "prediction" figures are obtained from simulations (the plot under discussion states it in the upper left corner)..
 

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