Was the Early Universe Hot?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conditions of the early universe, particularly whether it was hot or cold at the moment of the big bang. Participants explore various theories regarding the state of the universe before and immediately after the big bang, touching on concepts of density, entropy, and the definitions of heat in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the initial condition of the universe may have been cold due to the lack of space and movement, suggesting that heat developed after the big bang.
  • Others argue that the universe was extremely hot in the moments following the big bang, too hot for matter to exist, and that it had to cool over time for matter to condense from energy.
  • A participant notes that the state of the universe before the big bang is unknown and possibly unknowable, emphasizing the need for testable experiments to explore these conditions.
  • There is a discussion about the ambiguity of the term 'hot,' with some suggesting that 'energy density' might be a more precise term to describe the state of the universe at the moment of the big bang.
  • One participant mentions the Friedmann equation as a tool for calculating temperature at different times after the big bang, highlighting the complexity of the models involved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the early universe was hot or cold, and there is no consensus on the definitions of heat or the conditions preceding the big bang. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the definitions of terms like 'hot' and 'energy density' are critical to the discussion, and there are unresolved mathematical steps regarding the application of the Friedmann equation. The limitations of current theories and the challenges in testing them are also noted.

John_Mason
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The big bang is defined as the theory that the universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition. Was it hot? I would suspect that the initial condition was in fact cold due to the lack of space and therefore movement. The heat happen directly after the bang. Does this seem correct?
 
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The state of the universe (it may not even be definable) before the big bang is unknown. There are a lot of theories out there, but so far there doesn't seem to be any way to test them.
 
> It may not even be definable

Yes and no. We know with a fair level of certainly that it has dense and had extremely low entropy. During the first few moments after the bang, should we not be able to determine if the heat was building (which would indicate a cold initial condition) or decreasing (which would indicate a hot initial condition).
 
John you should probably survey the various models of what led up to the big bang. See this book:
http://www.springer.com/astronomy/general+relativity/book/978-3-540-71422-4

when you go there, click on TABLE OF CONTENTS
http://www.springer.com/astronomy/general+relativity/book/978-3-540-71422-4?detailsPage=toc

It is an active area of research. Also various ideas for testing some of the models (using data we can observe) are being studied. It is hard, but might be do-able.

there is more on this, if you are interested.

advice: don't get wed to one particular scenario at this point
 
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John_Mason said:
The big bang is defined as the theory that the universe has expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition. Was it hot? I would suspect that the initial condition was in fact cold due to the lack of space and therefore movement. The heat happen directly after the bang. Does this seem correct?
Do you mean initial condition before the bang itself? Because it was extremely hot in the fractions of seconds after the BB. Too hot in fact, for matter to exist. The universe had to cool for ages before it was cool enough for matter to condense from energy.
 
Conditions that preceeded the BB are unknown - and possibly unknowable. The point is moot until a testable experiment is proposed.
 
DaveC426913 said:
... The universe had to cool for ages before it was cool enough for matter to condense from energy.

saying ages may overstate it some, Dave. I mean if you think of quarks and electrons as matter.

but the basic idea is right, that it had to cool before things like quarks and electrons could have stable protracted existence.

if by matter you mean neutral hydrogen atoms then several hundred thousand years---ages is absolutely right.
 
I think the word 'hot' is too ambiguous to answer your question. By heat do you mean thermal radiation like Infrared? If so, I would say the Universe was not hot at all at the moment of the BB. I think energy density would be a better term to replace 'hot' and in that case, the Universe was presumably, by definition, infinitely dense at the moment of the BB. You can solve the Friedmann equation for temperature, given in Kelvin, for a given time after the BB. Just note that there are different variations of the equation that you must choose correctly for the time of your choice, for your solution of K to be accurate.
 

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