Wavelength of photon and size of imaged object

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    Photon Wavelength
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the wavelength of photons used in imaging modalities (such as X-ray and MRI) and the size of the objects being imaged. Participants explore the implications of this relationship for imaging resolution and interaction properties, raising questions about the underlying reasons for the stated requirement that the wavelength should be much larger than the object itself.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the wavelength of photons must be much larger than the object being imaged, suggesting this relates to the probability of photon interactions with atomic structures.
  • Others challenge this view, arguing that shorter wavelengths provide better resolution and questioning whether the requirement is indeed correct.
  • A participant provides examples from MRI, noting that at different magnetic field strengths, the wavelength changes and affects imaging capabilities, particularly at higher strengths where the wavelength approaches the size of the object.
  • There is mention of specific challenges in MRI at high field strengths, such as hot spots and standing waves, which may relate to the wavelength-to-object size ratio.
  • Some participants reference electron microscopes as evidence that shorter wavelengths can yield higher resolution, suggesting a need for clarification on the original statement regarding wavelength size.
  • One participant expresses confusion about how the size of the object influences the wavelength requirement and seeks further explanation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the relationship between wavelength and object size. There are competing views regarding whether the wavelength should be larger or smaller than the object for effective imaging, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the reasons behind the wavelength requirement and its implications for imaging quality. There are references to specific imaging modalities and conditions under which the wavelength-to-object size relationship is particularly relevant, but no definitive conclusions are drawn.

fred1234
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I have read the statement that 'the wavelength of the photons used in imaging an object needs to be much larger than the object itself', although I have never seen/heard a reason explained or the name of a theorem quoted. I have seen this in the description of more than one imaging modalities, X ray, MR. I assume it has to do with the probability of photon interacting with the spatially distributed atoms/molecules containing the proton/neutron/electron. Which has something to do with the oscillatory existence / non-existence of the electric and magnetic properties of the photon as it travels. And I assume that some scientist(s) that I have heard of before already have a theorem named after them that explains it.

Any ideas?
 
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fred1234 said:
I have read the statement that 'the wavelength of the photons used in imaging an object needs to be much larger than the object itself'

Size of my desk: about 1 meter
Wavelength of the light striking it: about 500 nanometers. (5 \times 10^{-7} meters)

I can see my desk just fine.
 
The imaging modalities I am referring to, (X ray, MR), the photons predominately homogeneously interact with the proton/neutron/electron(s) of the atom/molecules throughout the whole object being imaged and not just the surface of the object that the photons reach first. For example in 1H MRI at 1Tesla the frequency of the photons used have a wavelength of about 6 meters, which is much larger than the humans that are normally the objects imaged. When 9.4Tesla is used the wavelength narrows to about 1 meter and MR imaging of humans starts to become tricky. Why? What is the properties of the interactions of the photons with the matter that have changed between 6 meters and 1 meters wavelengths that involve the size of the object? MRI of rats and mice at 9T does not involve the same difficulties. (Note: MR scientists are only brave enough to work with the rats that are much smaller than 1 meter :-)
 
In MRI the position information is not given by the spatial localization of the emitted radiation. The subject being imaged is in an inhomogeneous magnetic field, so the resonant frequency depends on position. Know the frequency and you know where the radiation was emitted from.
 
fred1234 said:
I have read the statement that 'the wavelength of the photons used in imaging an object needs to be much larger than the object itself', although I have never seen/heard a reason explained or the name of a theorem quoted.
Are you sure you don't have this backwards? The smaller the wave length, the more precise position information. I would think that the wavelength must be much smaller than the object.

I have seen this in the description of more than one imaging modalities, X ray, MR. I assume it has to do with the probability of photon interacting with the spatially distributed atoms/molecules containing the proton/neutron/electron. Which has something to do with the oscillatory existence / non-existence of the electric and magnetic properties of the photon as it travels. And I assume that some scientist(s) that I have heard of before already have a theorem named after them that explains it.

Any ideas?
 
I agree with HallsofIvy. I think you have it backwards. In fact, I am sure you have heard of electron microscopes and electron beam lithography. These machines exist for this very reason: electrons have a shorter wavelength than light (they give more resolution than optical microscopes and photolithography, respectively).

Bests,
-PR
 
The statement as I heard/read it was 'the wavelength has to be much larger than the object being imaged'. Note: this is object size as a whole entity and not the separation between resolvable features. This reason was given as one of the requirements for MR imaging and one of the reasons imaging at really high magnet strengths would be tricky. The wavelength used for 1H MR imaging at 1.5T(most common magnet strength used) is 4.5m, which is much larger than about 0.25m bore of the magnet used to image humans. MR imaging under these conditions is considered to be reasonably compliant due to this aforementioned statement. The wavelength at 9.4T, (currently considered a really high magnetic strength), is just under 1m, and was stated that imaging at 9.4T would be challenging due to the wavelength to size of object condition. Some, but not all, of the problems that were mentioned were: hot spots, nulls, standing waves. The resolution seems to be better at 9.4T than at 1.5T so I do not think this has to do with the standard wavelength to molecule separation restriction of achievable resolution.

Everywhere I have read this just states it without explanation of what the cause or effects related to this requirement would be. When I ask lecturers that have made this statement they appear to side step around giving any actual answer. Since I have come across this statement many times I would like to understand what is meant by it. I do not have any clue as to how the size of the object would manifest itself as a problem in relation to the wavelength. I assume that the probability of photon / proton(neutron) interaction is dependent on the wavelength somehow and this produces spatial variations in this probability, but this is only a guess.

Thanks,

Fred
 

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