Ways to seat r out of n people around a table

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves finding a formula for seating r out of n people around a circular table, considering arrangements the same if each person has the same two neighbors, regardless of their seating direction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive a formula starting from the basic seating arrangement for n people and considers the implications of neighbor arrangements. Some participants question the need to divide by r due to the circular nature of the seating and suggest that mirrored positions may also need to be accounted for.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively discussing the formula derivation, with some guidance provided regarding the necessity of dividing by r and considering mirrored arrangements. There is an ongoing exploration of the correct approach without a clear consensus yet.

Contextual Notes

The problem does not provide specific equations or constraints beyond the seating arrangement conditions, leaving some assumptions about the nature of the arrangements under discussion.

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Homework Statement



Find a formula for the number of ways to seat r of n people around a circular table, where seatings are considered the same if every person has the same two neighbors without regard to which side these neighbors are sitting on.

Homework Equations



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The Attempt at a Solution



I understand the more basic form of this question; in order to seat n people, we have \frac{n!}{n}, since there are n! ways to seat n people and we divide out the n repetitions.

From there, we see that the ways to seat r of n people is simply \frac{P(n, r)}{r}. So that gives us the first part of the problem.

But I'm not really sure where to go from here. I'm thinking, in this specific problem, we shouldn't be dividing out the r people, since it's explicitly stated that the only seating arrangements that are considered the same are where the same person has the same two neighbors. So I'm thinking, I definitely have the numerator: P(n, r). And.. then I hit a wall.

Any help is appreciated.
 
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You'd still have to divide by r because if you shift everyone by one seat, they'll still have the same two neighbors. There's still another way to rearrange a permutation so that everyone has the same two neighbors. You need to account for that.
 
Okay, that makes sense. So now I have:

\frac{P(n,r)}{r}

What about multiplying r by 2, for the mirrored positions?

\frac{P(n,r)}{2r} = \frac{n!}{\frac{(n-r)!}{2r}}
 
Sounds good.
 

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