We have found a witch. May we burn her?

  • Thread starter Thread starter siddharth
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the execution of a woman in Saudi Arabia convicted of witchcraft, raising questions about justice, religion, and societal values. Participants explore the implications of such cases within the context of human rights, legal systems, and cultural beliefs, with references to historical and contemporary examples.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern over the miscarriage of justice in the case of Fawza Falih, highlighting the role of religious authorities in her conviction.
  • Others make light of the situation with humorous references to witch trials and suggest that accusations of witchcraft can stem from personal grievances, such as impotence.
  • There are claims that the motivations behind such actions are political rather than purely religious, with some arguing that religion is used as a facade for political power.
  • Some participants assert that certain religious texts explicitly endorse harsh punishments for witchcraft, suggesting that religion plays a significant role in these judicial decisions.
  • Discussions include the idea that societal power dynamics contribute to the oppression of women and the justification of violence against them.
  • There are contrasting views on whether religion itself is inherently harmful or if it is the misuse of religion by individuals that leads to evil actions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of agreement and disagreement regarding the role of religion and politics in the case. While some believe that the actions are politically motivated, others argue that they are rooted in religious doctrine. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views present.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific legal precedents and religious texts, but the implications of these references are debated without consensus on their interpretations or relevance to the current case.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring the intersections of law, religion, and human rights, as well as individuals interested in cultural critiques of justice systems.

siddharth
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Messages
1,145
Reaction score
0
Human Rights Watch has appealed to Saudi Arabia to halt the execution of a woman convicted of witchcraft.

In a letter to King Abdullah, the rights group described the trial and conviction of Fawza Falih as a miscarriage of justice.

The illiterate woman was detained by religious police in 2005 and allegedly beaten and forced to fingerprint a confession that she could not read.

Among her accusers was a man who alleged she made him impotent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7244579.stm

Really sad that some parts of the world still live in the dark ages.

Especially shocking is this bit.

When an appeal court decided she should not be executed, the law courts imposed the death sentence again, arguing that it would be in the public interest.

Public interest!?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Does she weigh as much as a duck? If so, she's made of wood.
 
Heck yes, if you make me impotent I'm going to burn you too. Maybe burning is too kind of a punishment.
 
Whose side are you on! Siddharth is a witch!

Witch!
WITCH!
 
This same woman turned ME into a NEWT!

Okay, totally serious now, I agree it is too bad that some societies will still do this to someone... But it does make for some fun, now, doesn't it?

BTW, I got better...
 
Among her accusers was a man who alleged she made him impotent.
I rather suspect that he began that way.
Shouldn't she get some sort of reward for saving a goat?
 
Why am I not surprised that this event is motivated by religion?
 
It's not religion. Same as the Jesus freaks in the USA. It's politics trying to disguise itself as religion. No established religion on the planet condones the kind of **** that people try to pull off under its umbrella.
 
Last edited:
Moridin said:
Why am I not surprised that this event is motivated by religion?
Religion turned you into a newt, did it?
 
  • #10
Among her accusers was a man who alleged she made him impotent.
Well, darn, just because she's ugly is no reason to burn her at the stake! :rolleyes: (I'm actually rather glad that someone who would accuse a woman of being a witch and want to execute her for it is impotent...we don't need any more of his prodigy running around.)
 
  • #11
Damned straight! Evolution in action.
 
  • #12
tribdog said:
Heck yes, if you make me impotent I'm going to burn you too. Maybe burning is too kind of a punishment.
Really ugly women can have that effect, can we burn them too??
 
  • #13
Art, have you never heard of double-bagging? That's when she's so ugly that you put a paper bag over your own head in case hers falls off.
 
  • #14
Danger said:
Art, have you never heard of double-bagging? That's when she's so ugly that you put a paper bag over your own head in case hers falls off.

:smile: Not QUITE what came to mind when I read double-bagging, but that should work too.
 
  • #15
Danger said:
Art, have you never heard of double-bagging? That's when she's so ugly that you put a paper bag over your own head in case hers falls off.
So that's where I went wrong! I thought it was a paper bag for you and a plastic bag for her. Oops!
 
  • #16
Well, if you're a necrophile, that would work out for you quite nicely.
 
  • #17
Seems like there's legal precedent for this case.

On November 2, Saudi Arabia executed Mustafa Ibrahim for sorcery in Riyadh. Ibrahim, an Egyptian working as a pharmacist in the northern town of `Ar’ar, was found guilty of having tried “through sorcery” to separate a married couple, according to a Ministry of Interior statement.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/02/14/saudia18051.htm

Danger said:
It's not religion. Same as the Jesus freaks in the USA. It's politics trying to disguise itself as religion.

In a way, it is partly religion too. This is what can happen when you base a judicial system on an interpretation of a religious text.

moe darklight said:
Whose side are you on!

Oh, just to make it clear, I'm obviously not suggesting that she be burnt. If you've seen Monty Python, you'd recognize the title.
 
Last edited:
  • #18
siddharth said:
In a way, it is partly religion too. This is what can happen when you base a judicial system on an interpretation of a religious text.

Point taken, and it's a good one. How about a compromise that I think sums it up properly (although anyone is welcome to disagree)? Regardless of it being based upon religion or politics, it's about power.
 
  • #19
Danger said:
Regardless of it being based upon religion or politics, it's about power.

Well, that's what I think politics and religion are primarily about anyway.
 
  • #20
About power...yes, that's it. And how can a society disempower half its population -- the female half -- and think it can be equal with other societies on Earth?
 
  • #21
A society can think whatever the populace will support. After all, the populace is the society. However afraid they might be of those in power, there are always enough of them to carry out an overthrow if they feel the need.
Which, by the bye, the US citizens should have done when that idiot 'W' stole the presidential position with the aid of his equally idiotic cousin in Florida. Everyone in the world knows that he lost that election, and nobody did anything about it.
 
Last edited:
  • #22
Danger said:
It's not religion. Same as the Jesus freaks in the USA. It's politics trying to disguise itself as religion. No established religion on the planet condones the kind of **** that people try to pull off under its umbrella.

Exodus 22:18: "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

There are many passages in the Qur'an condemning witches as well. It was carried out by religious people. It was motivated by religious dogma that specifically includes the imperative to imprison and kill witches. It was carrier out by religious police in a devoutly religious society. Politics has nothing to do with it. It is all about religion.
 
  • #23
Danger said:
It's not religion. Same as the Jesus freaks in the USA. It's politics trying to disguise itself as religion. No established religion on the planet condones the kind of **** that people try to pull off under its umbrella.
Islam does. Islam is a religion.

Christianity did. Judaism did.

You are walking about with the positive, utterly unevidenced prejudice that religion is "essentially" benign or at least harmless.
 
  • #24
I secretly think that the only reason we haven't been invited to join the galactic imperium is because the aliens know that all wars are religion based, so they are waiting until we grow out of the whole church thingie so that they can feel safe inviting us to have a couple pan galactic gargle blasters with them.
 
  • #25
You are not alone in your secret thoughts. :smile:

I want a pangalactic gargle blaster, too!
 
  • #26
arildno said:
Islam does. Islam is a religion.

Christianity did. Judaism did.

You are walking about with the positive, utterly unevidenced prejudice that religion is "essentially" benign or at least harmless.

Evil people use whatever is available. In Saudi Arabia they use religion because it is powerful in their society. If religion wasn't there, would evil people disappear? I don't think so. Religion isn't evil but it certainly can be used by evil people.
 
  • #27
wildman said:
Evil people use whatever is available. In Saudi Arabia they use religion because it is powerful in their society. If religion wasn't there, would evil people disappear? I don't think so. Religion isn't evil but it certainly can be used by evil people.

arildno really has a point though, particularly in the case of Islam. The Koran directly prescribes death as punishment for a heck of a lot of things, not to mention the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith" .)

So I would disagree with you and say that at least some parts of some religions are definitely evil. But I certainly agree with you that the absence of religion by no means equates to absence of evil. In particular there's the French Revolution type “We're so f▒▒▒ing rational we're going to guillotine all the f▒▒▒ing priests in France” kind of atheism, which I'm a bit worried is showing itself as resurgent with all of the militant atheism lately.
⚛​
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #28
wildman said:
Religion isn't evil

Prejudiced nonsense.

To go about thinking that someone deserves to burn forever just because he doesn't happen to share your view about how the world came into being, is an extremely sadistic and evil sentiment.

And it is part and parcel of Islam and many other religions.

And, mind you, the fear of hell on the individual level stunts the growth of that person since he doesn't dare to develop thoughts or desires that might plunge him into those flames.
 
Last edited:
  • #29
arildno said:
Prejudiced nonsense.
Even if your assessment is correct, it's better than torching a strawman. :-p
 

Similar threads

Outrageous Injustice: Saudi Woman Sentenced to Jail, Lashes
  • · Replies 126 ·
5
Replies
126
Views
19K
News Should the West Hold Saudi Arabia Accountable for Human Rights Abuses?
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
4K
Pregnant Briton 'faces execution'
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
News Bush Honest & Trustworthy Until How Many Lies?
  • · Replies 65 ·
3
Replies
65
Views
12K