We live in very interesting times

[Grep]

Not true, Pluto/Charon is a much larger ratio. Mass wise, Earth/Moon is about 81, where as Pluto/Charon is 8.6.

Note that he said planets.

*Runs for cover*

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Note that he said planets.

*Runs for cover*

Be that as it may, it seems to me that a claim of planet/moon mass ratios similar to Earth's being rare is unfounded. Furthermore, the presence of a "dwarf planet" with such a large planet/moon mass ratio (10x that of Earth/Luna) suggests proof to me that larger ratios are just as likely.

 

[mheslep]

And this is all highly unlikely in other systems? Why? What you call a freak accident, I call all but inevitable given enough time.

Can't be and have life. The event escapes me at the moment, but if the disruption in the outer solar system that caused all that orbital debris dislocation to the inner solar system were a common occurrence then the Earth (and like planets) would still be a bowling pin.

Meanwhile, I'm going with this reference:

Klaatu: There are only a handful of planets in the cosmos that are capable of supporting complex life...

 

[Andre]

Be that as it may, it seems to me that a claim of planet/moon mass ratios similar to Earth's being rare is unfounded.

So as a consequence, would a claim that planet/moon mass ratios similar to Earth's being common is founded? It is not that the hypotheses about the http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/features/print/2421/birth-moon sound very plain and common, do they?

 

[Mech_Engineer]

So as a consequence, would a claim that planet/moon mass ratios similar to Earth's being common is founded?

Looking at just our solar system does not give enough of a statistical sample for proof in either case... but people can hypothesize all they like.

I would hypothesize that it is likely that moons (of all varied sizes) are a relatively common occurence. Given the vast number of stars (and therefore planets and moons) that exist in our galaxy, it seems conceivable that there are many other planets in our galaxy that have similar planet/moon mass ratios to that of earth...

I make no claims as to their (earth-like planets) relative liklihood, or the necessity of a specific planet/moon mass ratio for life to exist.

 

[Pythagorean]

I think Andre's point is that in addition to the considerations of the Drake equation, you also have planet/moon ratio as an additional constraint, and that adding more constraints only reduces the probability.

So a perfect earth/moon combination that's pluto-distance from their sun is going to be a bit cold for life.

 

[Mech_Engineer]

I think Andre's point is that in addition to the considerations of the Drake equation, you also have planet/moon ratio as an additional constraint, and that adding more constraints only reduces the probability.

So a perfect earth/moon combination that's pluto-distance from their sun is going to be a bit cold for life.

I'm not convinced a planet HAS to have a planet/moon mass ratio close to Earth's in order for life to exist in the first place...

 

[Pythagorean]

I'm not convinced a planet HAS to have a planet/moon mass ratio close to Earth's in order for life to exist in the first place...

Well, I guess I'm not convinced that it must be so, but the arguments are reasonable: The moon provides stability in the Earth that allows for stability in the evolution process.

 

[Mathnomalous]

Gee, when I was little everything that could be discovered had been, man's dream of reaching the moon, been there, done that, man's dream of flying, same. Man's dream of transmitting sound and pictures around the world? Flameless light? Cooking food in a cold box?

Yeah, we should have all just dug our heads in the sand and given up, what else could there be to do that we hadn't already done?

What I meant to say is that those of us born after 1980 do not have a major challenges or objectives of "biblical proportions." From 1776 up to 1991, every generation had a major struggle and a major goal to accomplish: Wars of Independence, American Civil Rights Movement, defeating the Nazis, unifying Germany, discovering vaccine for polio, major scientific advancements, going to the Moon, etc. The characters that lived during these times were larger than life; they did things because they have to be done, no matter the price; they were not afraid to sacrifice anything, even their lives, to accomplish their assigned goals.

In contrast, my generation is wimpy, weak. We cry if we do not have a warm latte, a laptop, and a wireless connection available to waste time away on Facebook, Twitter, and World of Warcraft.

What major challenges do we have? What call have we answered? The latest call we have answered is Call of Duty: Black Ops... we need a major crisis that wakes us up yet I doubt we are capable of overcoming such a crisis.

These is what our forefathers did:

[PLAIN]http://www.metmuseum.org/explore/gw/art_gw/el_tut_img.jpg [PLAIN]http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/images/BB/mlk08.jpg

This is what my generation does:

[URL]http://www.masternewmedia.org/images/US-media-consumption-234915975_ffe3e4f6b7-o.jpg[/URL] [URL]http://gearcrave.frsucrave.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/warcrack.jpg[/URL]

 

[Char. Limit]

Wrong, biased, and extremely offensive, Mathnomalous.

 

[Mathnomalous]

Nothing that has not been written, debated, expressed, or heard about my generation. We are extremely good at detecting BS, though.

 

[Char. Limit]

Nothing that has not been written, debated, expressed, or heard about EVERY generation by the generation preceding it.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-Socrates

 

[Mech_Engineer]

Nothing that has not been written, debated, expressed, or heard about my generation. We are extremely good at detecting BS, though.

There is plenty to do in the world, and plenty that needs to be done. The fact that you are having trouble finding something to be inspired by is no one's fault but your own. Categorizing "your generation" as geeked-out electronics addicts is logical fallacy.

 

[Mathnomalous]

There is plenty to do in the world, and plenty that needs to be done. The fact that you are having trouble finding something to be inspired by is no one's fault but your own. Categorizing "your generation" as geeked-out electronics addicts is logical fallacy.

You are correct.

I simply feel anything we may accomplish will pale in comparison with what our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents accomplished.

 

[Grep]

Nothing that has not been written, debated, expressed, or heard about EVERY generation by the generation preceding it.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-Socrates

Touché!

 

[Mathnomalous]

Nothing that has not been written, debated, expressed, or heard about EVERY generation by the generation preceding it.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-Socrates

I have been defeated.I still dislike my cohorts, though.

 

[mheslep]

In contrast, my generation is wimpy, weak.

I don't think so, not for many of them.

http://movies.nationalgeographic.com/movies/restrepo

 

[Char. Limit]

I have been defeated.

By saying this, and being willing to admit defeat, my respect for you went up about 100fold.

I still dislike my cohorts, though.

Well so do I, but I'm not going to cast a shadow of blame on an entire generation.

 

[mheslep]

Nothing that has not been written, debated, expressed, or heard about EVERY generation by the generation preceding it.

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

-Socrates

That's a nice reference (though probably a bogus attribution to Socrates) but there are two ways to see it historically. The first is as you did - that every new generation looks worse to the prior, always. The second view is that history and society proceeds in epic cycles, not arithmetically for ever. The second view bestows upon Socrates a much more cautionary note.

 

[Mathnomalous]

Well so do I, but I'm not going to cast a shadow of blame on an entire generation.

But we still need to jam a high voltage cable up our collective derrières. Back in 2008 - 2009, when the feds were bailing out companies left and right, I thought "this is the moment! young people are going to revolt and demand a stop to all this!" Instead, the deafening roar of silence...

I feel the major challenge of our times is the unbearable financial inequality between the "haves" and the "have-nots." More and more debt is being charged on OUR credit card and we are not doing much about it. I honestly yearn the day when we young people will rise up and overthrow our elders, do the same thing the masses did to Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, not more of that "Rock the Vote" nonsense that does not work.

That is the only delusion I grant myself in my otherwise quiet and unremarkable life. Ok, I am also looking forward to sexy robots I can, um, engage in man-machinette relations; that ain't cheating, is it..?

 

[Zryn]

"Be the change you want to see in the world"

-Ghandi

Instead of doing something, you sit on an online forum and complain .

 

[Mathnomalous]

In my defense, threatening to overthrow the government or put wealthy people under the guillotine are frowned upon in modern times. "Good" citizens are expected to debate the issues peacefully and to vote. Citizens who challenge the status quo are generally considered to be "bad" citizens by The Powers That Be and immediately tased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

I do not want to be tased, bro. At least, not yet.

 

[Zryn]

You could get lucky and be shot with rubber bullets or have the joys of mace-in-your-face instead. Batons and riot shields can make a fair mess too!

Instead of doing something that might be dangerous or frowned upon due to social etiquette, you could anonymously hide on the internet and tweet about the injustices of the world or log into Warcraft and release your pent up anger by slaying a dragon. .

 

[CRGreathouse]

All of which are very different from world wars.

I was addressing Lisa's point which was about wars in the third world, not world wars. (My numbers did not exclude non-third-world wars but the probabilities would be similar.)

 

[Mathnomalous]

You could get lucky and be shot with rubber bullets or have the joys of mace-in-your-face instead. Batons and riot shields can make a fair mess too!

Instead of doing something that might be dangerous or frowned upon due to social etiquette, you could anonymously hide on the internet and tweet about the injustices of the world or log into Warcraft and release your pent up anger by slaying a dragon. .

I fire my electronic bullets on Reddit. I quit Warcraft 3 years ago... damn Blizzard and their nerfs. I am just a poor, young family man daydreaming about future possibilities. There is not much else goings on in the lives of people at my socioeconomic level; we only have family and future goals as inspiration (those two inspirations are more than excellent). Still, it never hurts to think about great things one might experience.

Who knows? Maybe my son will win a Nobel Prize!