Weird rhythm in this instrumental piece

[DaveC426913]

This tune isn't my favourite from Penguin Cafe Orchestra but it's taken up rent-free space in my brain. It's called "Another One from Porlock".

The body of the piece part begins at 0:25s after a piano intro.



OK, so we've got two string instruments in the viol* family, which I think are slightly out of sync as well as out-of-tune, creating an interesting juxtaposition.

Then there's the time signature. I tried to tap it out for myself but I had to cheat and ask ChatGPT. ChatGPT says it's 5/4 timing (though I wonder if 10/4 timing might be more appropriate).

But I think there's also some funkiness going on within the beat. I can't quite isolate it. It's either something like triplets or it's just emphasis on the 'up' beat rather than the usual 'down' beat.

Anybody here that doesn't have a tin ear?

 

[.Scott]

Yeah. It's 5/4 time and there's no one voice that hits all the beats. From what I've heard, that tends to be the rule with 5/4 - but it's more of an issue with this piece.
You can compare it to the theme to Mission Impossible - which is also 5/4 with no one voice catching every beat.

 

[symbolipoint]

I am finding 8 beats per measure. A chord strike is happening every 8 beats.

 

[BWV]

yes, its clearly a cycle of 8 beats with the piano and percussion, the top line stays within the 8 beat phrase but seems some progressive 16th note syncopations between the two viols

 

[Hornbein]

Sounds totally normal 4/4 to me.

If you seek weird rhythm it's hard to beat this.

 

[DaveC426913]

Sounds totally normal 4/4 to me.

The voil* parts?

 

[symbolipoint]

Sounds totally normal 4/4 to me.

If you seek weird rhythm it's hard to beat this.

That one is difficult. So hard I can't try to check it well. I think there is some timing changes happening in different parts. (I'm referring to the link under "this".)

 

[Hornbein]

The voil* parts?

At first it's just the same note repeated so the time signature could be anything. Once the piano comes in and they start changing notes then one can tell that it's sixteenth notes, four per beat.

 

[Hornbein]

That one is difficult. So hard I can't try to check it well. I think there is some timing changes happening in different parts. (I'm referring to the link under "this".)

That's one of the most adventurous recordings ever made. There isn't any time signature. Their root was Delta blues. If you're singing and playing guitar all by yourself then you can do whatever you feel like whenever you feel like it. I once saw/heard John Lee Hooker playing with a pickup backup band. They could not predict what he would do. The Beefheart band rehearsed like crazy to coordinate that stuff.
They do it the same every time.

These days music from the West is maybe 99% 4/4 time and eight bar phrases in groups of four. The waltz and 6/8 time have dropped by the wayside. The West concentrates on harmony, lyrics, expression, and melody. Classical India on the other hand uses a lot of odd times but the tonal center doesn't move at all. Then there is the fusion of the Mahavishnu Orchestra which adopted the odd times and even once had two time signatures going at the same time in The Dance of Maya. That's extremely rare. This was copied effectively by Yes in Perpetual Change. Frank Zappa loved that stuff (and was a big Mahavishnu fan.) He would program the Synclavier to play fifth notes and seventh notes and so forth but I have never chased that stuff down so I don't know that he ever released it.

Six bar phrases are quite unusual. Norman Greenbaum's Spirit In The Sky has a few. The tune Guitar Town too. Grateful Dead's Uncle John's Band. That's three songs in fifty five years!

African music (it's a very big place so you can't really generalize) has a lot more exotic rhythms. In compensation their harmony is quite simple. One and two chord jams that go on for a long time. Mostly the instruments lock into a very repetitious pattern while the lead drummer tries to throw them off. Drummer Dennis Chambers did that with guitarist Mike Stern. Mike has to keep the beat while Dennis speeds up and slows down. When I saw Dennis he briefly played a steady beat with one hand and varied tempo with the other!

 

[BWV]

Listening to it again, the string part beginning at around 0:50 is in grouping of 3+3+2+2+2+2+2, against the a straight 2- if the basic pulse is a cycle of 8 quarter notes, you could notate this as one bar of 3+3+2 / 8 followed by 4/4 (there are several equivalent ways to notate this). The drums play a quarter note pulse, which creates this tension. The bass reinforces the rhythm of the strings. Also sounds like later there is some shifting of accents

 

[BWV]

Sounds totally normal 4/4 to me.

If you seek weird rhythm it's hard to beat this.

 

[DaveC426913]

At first it's just the same note repeated so the time signature could be anything. Once the piano comes in and they start changing notes then one can tell that it's sixteenth notes, four per beat.

Yes, sorry. I meant the later part, beginning at about 0:42s.

It may be sixteenth notes but it doesn't repeat in 4/4 time.