History What Ancient Ruins Have Been Discovered in the Mayan Underworld?

[baywax]

Cancel that dating idea, as exposure dating techniques relate to exposure to atmosphere, light and cosmic rays. Obviously that doesn't work.

However there was a barnacle found between the remains, which lead to the only scientific publication about the Mega site:

First Record of the Barnacle Crustacean Genus Newmaniverruca.



Obviously this is a shallow water species and the authors could not explain how it got there at that depth of 600-700 meters. Now there is a sample to carbon date. Should not be surprized if that would be a five digit figure. Could that barnacle have lived there under normal conditions when the site made it's way to its current depth?

But then again, could somebody have thrown it in the water?

This is a good development regardless. It means there is some study being done on the site.

When I ask if the monuments like the Mayan "lighthouse", "hurricane warning system" could have been established before the Mayan nation got there... it is a bit juvenile and too simple a speculation to answer.

This is because the Maya really could have experienced the ups and downs like any civilization experiences. Take Rome for example. They enjoyed centuries of splendor and achievement then fell into disuse... then rose again as Italy with the renaissance and all sorts of progress.

The same thing could have happened with the Maya. The remains of their ancestors could well be laying on the sea bottom, across the Yucatan straight, by Cuba. These are exciting times!

 

[Andre]

Afraid not, ther phrase is "has been done". It was published in 2004

 

[baywax]

Afraid not, ther phrase is "has been done". It was published in 2004

OK then... let's just say we know there's something quite interesting to study at the Mega site. Let's gather up some of our billionaire friends and convince them we need some sea worthy mini-subs for an expedition. We could mention the duo purpose of oil exploration to grease the wheels a little. (Pun intended)

I meant to mention the fact that the Maya culture has found some sort of solace in the idea of honouring their ancestors under water... or, at least, symbolically entering the water to reach the underwater caves where they built shrines or temples to their ancestors. This could very well point to a ritual acknowledgment of the final resting place of a previous... possibly 12,000 - 15,000 year old... rendition of their civilization and thus, their highly achieved "anscestors".

You see similarities in how there are huge ritual traditions commemorating the "sinking" of Krishna's fabled city, in the bay of Cambai off western India. Today the ruins of a 2 by 5 mile city boundary have been documented to be resting in 120 feet of sea water there. Carbon dating of grass in some of the bricks put its age at around 10,000 ybp.

 

[baywax]

My spelling was wrong about the Bay of Cambay...

Here's the Wikipedia version of events there... I'll link after the quotes...

On May 19, 2001, India's science and technology minister Murli Manohar Joshi announced the finding of ruins in the Gulf of Khambhat (formerly known as the Gulf of Cambay and more commonly spelled Khambhat). The ruins, known as the Gulf of Khambhat Cultural Complex (GKCC), are located on the seabed of a nine-kilometer stretch off the coast of Gujarat province at a depth of about 40 m. The site was discovered by a team from the National Institute of Ocean Technology (NIOT) in December 2000 and investigated for six months with acoustic techniques. The team identified city-like structures at the location, said to resemble those of major cities of the Indus Valley Civilization, with regular geometric patterns representing a granary, a great bath and a citadel.

and more...

A round of further underwater explorations was made in the Gulf of Khambhat (Cambay) site by the NIOT team from 2003 to 2004, and the samples obtained of what was presumed to be pottery were sent to laboratories in Oxford, UK and Hanover, Germany, as well as several institutions within India, to be dated by Optically Stimulated Luminescence (OSL) and thermoluminescence dating techniques. These pieces returned dates ranging from 13000 ± 1950 BP up to the oldest at 31270 ± 2050 BP, leading to NIOT's chief geologist Badrinaryan Badrinaryan stating that they had uncovered the earliest-known pottery remains in the world, from about 31000 BP [2]. In his web publication of his findings, Badrinaryan (2006) stated:
“ Since some persons have expressed doubts about the pottery pieces, a thorough scientific study was made involving the pottery pieces to establish their authenticity. To determine the properties of various material including pottery, many samples were subjected to X-Ray Diffraction (XRD) analysis. Since the materials that constitute pottery etc are clays and heterogeneous mixtures of a variety of materials, these were accordingly analyzed. Every area has a special fingerprint pattern in the clay which can be recognized in X-Ray diffraction (XRD)...

(continues)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_in_the_Gulf_of_Cambay

And here you can read the intertwining of myth with history where Krishna's reign in India and the building of his temples and city (Old Dwaraka) are helped by and destroyed by the "sea gods".

I'm posting this example as a possible parallel to the Mayan myths and ritals observed to have taken place in their "underworld" temples.

Lord Krishna was born in Mathura (now in Uttar Pradesh state). He escaped from the evil clutches of his uncle Kamsa. He grew up in Brindavana. Krishna's elder brother, Balarama married Revati, the daughter of king Raivata who ruled the Kutch region in Gujarat state. Krishna wanted his clan - Yadavas to have peaceful days and shifted his entire kingdom from Mathura (which he had gained after slaying Kamsa) to Dwaraka on the western part of Gujarat. Krishna requested Vishwa Karma - the celestial architect to build a city for his clan. Vishwa Karma after surveying the area felt that more land was needed. Krishna then requested Samudra Deva (Sea God) to recede and give more space for Vishwa Karma's city building activity. The sea God agreed to do so with the condition that the land will be reclaimed back should Adharma increase among Yadavas. Lord Krishna stayed there along with 8 queens and ruled the area. Since He was the creator of Dwaraka city, Krishna was called as DWARAKADHEESH.
After Maha Bharata war which took place near the present Delhi area, Krishna returned to Dwaraka and continued to rule. After his passing away, the Yadavas fought among themselves and Adharma increased and the sea God caused a Tsunami and reclaimed the land he had given earlier.

http://www.dattapeetham.com/india/tours/2005/gujarat/dwaraka.htm

Present day Dwaraka is situated on the shores of the Bay of Khambhat (Cambay).

 

[baywax]

Here's the cave dwelling I was talking about.

The student is in the cave for scale. Notice the amount of soot on the ceiling.

The two figures are coyotes... son an father.

The wall of pictographs is in the cave.


There's more of the top of the canyon and the fishing/hunting area. And a bison or grizzly bear figure... you can help me decide which it is!

 

[baywax]

Their fishing and hunting environment

The bison - bear controversy...

The guy on the sun baked granite slab.

The dwelling was in a canyon with a 300 foot tall wall
of granite directly across from it. This wall served to
act as an acoustic warning system for any movement
in the canyon.

Edit

Lots of Lichen for Evo.

The pigment is iron based from the rocks in the area. Ochre
would have been used as well but it washes away easier
than iron.

This was a summer residence for not more than about 20-30 people.
Winter probably saw them further south through the Okanogan
down to Montana or even further. Perhaps they returned to a
larger group there.

This could be as old as 9000 years.
I'm conservatively calling it 6000 years old.

The continuous use of the site brings with it
the obscuring effect of recent cultural activity
but, nearby, found proximal sites with extremely
worn pictographs, covered in lichen suggesting
a long use of the area. Big horn sheep still
use the area for migration. The cougars seem to
know about that as well as the humans. All in
all its like a trip to heaven.

 

[marxmarvelous]

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Now that I've found the site after taking long to register I'll copy the post here. Gave me time to realize who is the most capable and willing to discuss the issues passed thru here widely. Moises is the master of Mayan archaeoastronomy besides having lived with the Maya and proficient in speaking the language recorded in the glyphs. He will show the book that gives you the last words----so you can go listen yourself.
It's psychologically healthy to spend some time with a person who has been around the sun many times and knows the most important thing is to be happy. He bought a cattle ranch next to the ruins and allowed the jungle to return though he built inexpensive roofs(and walls for those needing them) so we can enjoy... Bring a pad and pen.
In 1492 when Colunbus sailed the ocean blue the Christians took over Spain, kicked out the Moslems and Jews who didn't change their names to a good Spanish name and worship Mary in public. Haven't looked yet at what a Morale is. They kicked out the Jews cause they got along, traded with the Moslems. The ones who actually came from the holy land did/do that.



I wanted to add to Underwater water Mayan sites or something and couldn't find it. The Director of the ruins at Chichen said that pilgrims to Chichen I. participated in a course of ceremonys at different temples after preparation(to stimulate body humors, chemicals) by priests/guides. First was an underground water site, last the pyramid. The guide most requested by European leaders, mentioned below, surely knows where the water site is in Palenque though I haven't asked him yet.
In '93 in a miniinterview he said that when thousands of bone packets were found hidden under stones in Chichen and Palenque "they" decided to not mention it for ten years and not exhibit the bones for 20 years. 13 years later I asked if "they" was INAH(Mex. Anthropologic Society) and he smiled. He is as attentive as Krishnamurti in not allowing memory to consume the present. His jungle is especially pretty; a stand of giant Hawaiian bamboo lies outside a sons restaurant. Special flora have been assisted in returning.





Predictions? Consider visiting Moises Morales in Panchon, campground next to Palenque Ruins. He was there when the tomb was opened and listened to the "experts." None have mentioned yet that the 5 ton rock on the sarcophagus pictures a man falling into meditatinal death beneath a cross...
He's partial to anthropologists, especially pretty female ones. Casteneda and R. Gordon Wasson were his friends; Wasson visited frequently. He knew the psychiatrist who helped Carlos write his first books and was the main model for "Don Juan's" teaching style.
Moises is '84 and will invite "experts" to confer in the "Linda Schele Sala" and present themselves for more questioning than the 30 minutes allowed in the Mesa Redondas(round table discussions of the Maya. He has lived with the most basic Maya and understands the Maya calendar and its relience on wheels turning against other wheels and the nature of wheels to complete cycles. And aware of man's tendency to imagination.
If anyone is interested in the Maya and current possibilitys for interaction please consider visiting him. Easier than the Dala Lama. Ask his opinion of grandmotherscouncil.com or anything about Casteneda or Wasson. Awake to monkeys in the trees near your hammock.