What Are Riemann-Stieltjes Integrals and How Can We Visualize Them?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the Riemann-Stieltjes integral, focusing on its visualization and comparison to the traditional Riemann integral. Participants explore theoretical aspects, applications in probability, and the implications of using a function F to define intervals in integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in visualizing the Riemann-Stieltjes integral and seeks clarification on the notation used for F.
  • Another participant explains that F is a function determining the size of intervals, contrasting it with the Riemann integral, where the interval size is simply b-a.
  • It is noted that when F(x) = x, the Riemann-Stieltjes integral simplifies to the Riemann integral.
  • Some participants highlight the utility of the Riemann-Stieltjes integral in unifying sums and integrals and accommodating impulse functions like the Dirac delta function.
  • A request for examples is made to illustrate the differences between Riemann and Riemann-Stieltjes integrals, particularly in the context of probability distributions.
  • A hypothetical example involving a random variable with a point mass is proposed, discussing how a Riemann-Stieltjes integral can effectively handle such cases where traditional Riemann integrals may struggle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the conceptual framework of the Riemann-Stieltjes integral and its advantages over the Riemann integral in certain contexts. However, there is no consensus on specific examples or applications, and some participants continue to seek clarification and further examples.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of the function F and the nature of the bounded function f, which may not be fully explored or defined. The implications of using point masses in probability are also noted but not resolved.

Artusartos
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I'm having trouble visualizing the riemann-stieltjies integral...

Our textbook states:

We assume throughout this section that F is an increasing function on a closed interval [a,b]. To avoid trivialities we assume F(a)<F(b). All left-hand and right-hand limits exist...We use the notation

F(t^-)= lim_{x \rightarrow t^-} F(x) and F(t^+)= lim_{x \rightarrow t^+} F(x)

For a bounded function f on [a,b] and a partition P={a=t_0 &lt; t_1 &lt; ... &lt; t_n = b} of [a,b], we write

J_F(f,P) = \sum_{k=0}^n f(t_k) [F(t_k^+) - F(t_k^-)]

The upper Darboux-Stieltjes sum is

U_F(f,P) = J_F(f,P) + \sum_{k=1}^n max(f, (t_{k-1}, t_k) [F(t_k^+) - F(t_{k-1}^-)]

I'm having trouble visualizing this...also, by F(x), do they mean the integral of f(x)?

Thanks in advance
 
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No F (a confusing choice of variable) is a function that determines the size of intervals. In a Riemann integral
∫f dx
the interval [a,b] has size b-a
In a Riemann-Stieltjies integral
∫f dF
the interval [a,b] has size F(b+)- F(a-)

and of course when F(x)=x the Riemann-Stieltjies integral reduces to the Riemann integral

This is helpful in many ways.
-We can take sums as a type of integral and unify sums and integrals
-We can have impulse function like the Dirac delta function which concentrate a change to a single point.
 
Last edited:
lurflurf said:
No F (a confusing choice of variable) is a function that determines the size of intervals. In a Riemann integral
∫f dx
the interval [a,b] has size b-a
In a Riemann-Stieltjies integral
∫f dF
the interval [a,b] has size F(b+)- F(a-)

and of course when F(x)=x the Riemann-Stieltjies integral reduces to the Riemann integral

This is helpful in many ways.
-We can take sums as a type of integral and unify sums and integrals
-We can have impulse function like the Dirac delta function which concentrate a change to a single point.

Thanks a lot...is it ok if you give an example or something? So I can understand the difference better (between usual Reimann integrals and Reimann-Stieltjes Integrals)?
 
Artusartos said:
is it ok if you give an example or something?

Something short of a complete example:

I see from your other posts that you know something about statistics. Suppose we have a random variable X whose distribution is defined by the statement:

There is a 0.3 probability that X = 0.5 and if X is not equal to 0.5 then the other possibilities for X are uniformly distributed on the intervals [0,0.5) and (0.5, 1].

How would you compute the expected value a function f(X) ? ( e.g. the case f(X) = X would be the expected value of X). I think the common sense way is;

\bar{f(x)} = (0.3) f(0.5) + (1.0 - 0.3) \ ( \ (0.5) \int_0^{0.5} f(x) u_1(x) dx + (0.5) \int_{0.5}^{1} f(x) u_2(x) dx\ )

Where u_1(x) is the uniform distribution on [0,0.5) and u_2(x) is the uniform distribution on (0.5, 1] and the integrals are Riemann integrals.

It would be convenient to define a single distribution function for X and write \bar{f(x)} as a single integral (even if the practical computation of that integral amounted to the work above). However, a Riemann integral can't handle the "point mass" probability at X = 0.5 because, in a manner of speaking, it sits on a rectangle whose base has zero length.

From the viewpoint of probability theory, a Riemann-Stieljes integral can be regarded as way of defining a new form of integration that handles such "point masses". ( You can define a nondecresasing function F(x) which has a jump of size 0.3 at x = 0.5 )
 

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