What Are Russian Doll Words in English Language Puzzles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "Russian Doll Words," which are words that can be "peeled" by removing letters from the beginning and end to form new words. Participants explore the potential for creating multiple valid words from a single root word, examining various examples and sharing their findings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a method for identifying words that can be peeled to create new words, suggesting that words with certain endings or multiple consonants may work better.
  • Examples of words that fit the criteria include ASHAMED, MUSINGS, and various others, with some participants noting the maximum number of words derived from specific lengths.
  • Several participants share their attempts, with varying success, to find words that yield multiple valid forms, including humorous or less conventional examples.
  • There is discussion about the possibility of relaxing rules to include proper nouns or to allow for wildcard searches to find more examples.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the validity of certain derived words, leading to further exploration of definitions and word forms.
  • Creative approaches are suggested, such as matching prefixes and suffixes or varying the number of letters removed in each "peel."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the concept of Russian Doll Words and share a common interest in exploring them, but there is no consensus on the rules or the best methods for finding such words. Disagreements arise regarding the validity of certain examples and the strictness of the peeling process.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note limitations in their examples, such as the need for dictionary validation of certain words and the challenge of adhering to the peeling rules while still generating valid words.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to linguists, word puzzle enthusiasts, educators, and anyone interested in the playful aspects of language and word formation.

Math Is Hard
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Here's something to keep HRW up late, and it's a spin off on Curious3141's ideas about "Russian Doll Words"(which was very cool), but not quite exactly the same idea. I am pretty sure I have seen these in word puzzles before, but I started messing with them again recently subconsciously.

What I am after are words that can be "peeled" to make new words.

Strip off the first and last letter and get a new word, and then repeat until you get down to a 2 or 3 letter word root. (Possibly down to a one letter word, like A or I.) 2 letter roots are for words with an even number of letters and 3 or 1 letter roots are for words with an odd number of letters.

For instance ASHAMED counts for ASHAMED and SHAME and HAM. (and then A is a word, so bonus for that!) 4 words total.

MUSINGS counts for MUSINGS and USING and SIN (And I). 4 words total.

These are the maximums I have found: 4 words made from one word 7 letters long.

I wonder if it is possible to find words containing more words or letters than this?

My other (not as good) finds are
FLOWERS: 7 letters, 3 words, FLOWERS, LOWER, and OWE.
PROBING: 7 letters, 3 words, PROBING, ROBIN, and OBI.
MOMENT: 6 letters, 3 words, MOMENT, OMEN, and ME
CANONS: 6 letters, 3 words, CANONS, ANON, and NO
 
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I'm really bad at these...the best I could come up with was:
BOWL: 4 letters, 2 words, BOWL, OW! :biggrin: :-p
 
That's a good start, Moonbie! I think the trick is to find a good middle word to build on. Ones that lend themselves to "s", "e" or "ed" endings work well. And words that contain multiple consonants in the beginning are good.
Try some using the middle word ID or OR.
 
Can I cheat and just find any words? :redface:
 
p.s I was trying to find something biology-related for you, MB, but the best I could do was TOM -> STOMA. :)
 
Math Is Hard said:
p.s I was trying to find something biology-related for you, MB, but the best I could do was TOM -> STOMA. :)
Aww...thanks. I think you get a bonus point for using a word that also has a scientific anagram: Atoms. :biggrin:
 
Evo said:
Can I cheat and just find any words? :redface:
Well, you could, but I think that might be a different game. :smile: I should relax the rules and allow proper nouns, though.
 
Moonbear said:
Aww...thanks. I think you get a bonus point for using a word that also has a scientific anagram: Atoms. :biggrin:
Neat-o! I never thought of that! :cool:
 
Towel -> Owe

Dish -> Is

heart -> ear -> A

Okay, this is pathetic, I'm going back to picking on pengwuino. :biggrin:
 
  • #10
I can think of about a thousand that form three words:

SHINTO - HINT - IN
FLAGS - LAG - A
SHADE - HAD - A
TWINS - WIN - I
FLAWS - LAW - A
SAILS - AIL - I
HAIRY - AIR - I
NEATO - EAT - A
HOARY - OAR - A

Tough to find ones that'll form four words, though. If you could take off two letters from the end and beginning, you could make ASHAMED into UNASHAMEDLY and have one that makes five, but I guess that's outside of the rules.
 
  • #11
APATHY-PATH-AT
SPARE-PAR-A
SLIDE-LID-I
SPORES-PORE-OR

Math Is Hard said:
I should relax the rules and allow proper nouns, though.

Well in that case...

ATHENS (or ATHENA)-THEN-HE
 
  • #12
UBIQUITOUS-QUIT-UI

(Ui is a last name :biggrin:)
 
  • #13
yomamma said:
(Ui is a last name :biggrin:)

How about BIQUITOU and IQUITO, are they last names too? :rolleyes:

You're supposed to be peeling off one pair of letters at a time.
 
  • #14
Salient > Alien > Lie > I
Stripes > Tripe > Rip > I
Piraters > Irater > Rate > At

I can't find "Irater" in the dictionary, but I can't find "Angrier" in there either, so "Irater" should be a word.
 
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  • #15
I'll be back later (I'm actually turning a pattern (the deletion of compound constituents) that fell out of the trinonym thread into a little miniresearch project thing and am busy (snoozing) collecting data for it), but I just have to say that this is a perfect example of why I love you, MIH. If I was a teacher, I'd want you as a student, and if I was a student, I'd want you as a teacher, and if I was just about anything else, I'd want you around. You rock SO hard! :biggrin:

P.S. Okay, one first idea: match up pairs of prefixes and suffixes with the same number of letters (e.g., (un-, -ed) (surround a verb stem), (dis-, -ize), (dis-, -ed-s), etc.). This guarantees you at least one peeling, but then you can also look specifically for stems that would form more, e.g., dis-[]-ing, is-[]-in, s-[]-i. Actually, building up from stems does look more promising -- just matching prefixes for suffixes. Say, pick a word: heart. dis-heart-en-s. dis-he(art)-en-ing... Ack, devil woman, you will be the death of me! :approve: (I wonder where that saying comes from.)

P.P.S. Is undishearteningly a word? :buggrin:

Oh, EACH peeling needs to produce a word. Oops, autopilot. Okay, Roger. Or do you prefer stripping? :-p

Still, varying the length of each peel (1 letter, 2 letters, etc.) could be interesting too, I think.

Oh, and loseyourname already said what I said. I guess I should read the thread before posting P.S.s. :redface:
 
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  • #16
honestrosewater said:
...but I just have to say that this is a perfect example of why I love you, MIH. If I was a teacher, I'd want you as a student, and if I was a student, I'd want you as a teacher, and if I was just about anything else, I'd want you around. You rock SO hard! :biggrin:
Something's terribly wrong here: you and I are somehow in total agreement about something.
 
  • #17
zoobyshoe said:
Something's terribly wrong here: you and I are somehow in total agreement about something.
:cool: It's not so terrible, is it?

Um, I hope this isn't cheating: You can do wildcard searches on OneLook (I adore this site). A * is replaced with a string of any length, and a ? is replaced with a single letter. For instance, I wanted to find some words to fill in

un-[]-ed

So one option is a word that begins with n, ends with e, and what's in between them is a verb

n-[VERB]-e

One search is n?e, which turned up, e.g., naile, giving

unailed -- naile -- ail -- i

Jimmy was sick last week, but now he is unailed. Kosher?

Other example searches: n*e, n?i?e, n??a??e, n*at*e, ?to?, ?atop?...

And actually, you wouldn't need to even think in terms of categories of words; it's just automatic for me, I guess. :rolleyes:
 
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  • #18
e-shearers -- shearer -- heare -- ear -- a

Surely you wouldn't reject this already rejected name for the first electronic razor? I don't know how much the poor word can take. Not to mention their dejected inventor, Mr. E. Shearer. I, for one, think that E. Shearer's e-shearers deserve another chance. But I am just a simple country witch doctor.
 
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  • #19
honestrosewater said:
:cool: It's not so terrible, is it?
Not at all. It's nice to find we're in enthusiastic agreement about something, just temporarily disorienting, is all.
 
  • #20
I can think of about a thousand, this is easy:
Hinder > Hind > Hi > I
Blenders > Blender > Blend > Lend > End > En (the average with of a typeset charachter)
Magistrate > Magi > Ma > A
Ashamed > Ashame > A sham? > Sham > Ham > Am > A
Speakerbox > Speaker > Peaker > Peak > Pea > A
Gulgamesh > Amesh :-p > Mesh
Arrowhead > Arrow > Row > Ow > O
Ledges > Edges > Led > Ed!
Apartheid > Apart > Part > Par > Pa > A
Discussions > Discussion> Discuss > Cuss > Us
Applications > Application > Cations > Ions > Ion > Io > I
Jackass > Ass > As > A
Jackrabbit > Rabbit > Rabbi > Ra > A
Reference > Refer > Ref
Peppermints > Peppermint > Pepper > Pep
Peppermints > Mints > Mint > Min (a dialect of Chinese) > Mi (the third note of a major scale: do re mi...) > I
Waterloo > Water > Ate > At > A
Conditioner > Condition > Ion > Io > I
Conditioner > Condition > Con > On > O
Flippantly > Pant > Ant > An > A
Clocktowers > Clocktower > Tower > Tow > To > O
Clocktower > Clocktower > Clock > Lock > Lo > O
Oxford > Ox > O
Oxford > Ford > For > Fo
Publications > Publication > Public > Pub > P.U. You stink
Publications > Publication > Cations > Cation > Ion > Io > I
Conservationists > Conservationist > Conservation > Cons > Con > On > O

Anybody want to try these?
Advantageousness
Antineodisestablishmenttarianism
Angelicans
Replications
Breadsitcks
Globalization
Magnetohydrodynamics

This is like a cross between Scrabble and factor treeing
 
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  • #21
You're doing it wrong, MK. With each successive move, you have to take only one letter off of the beginning and end of each word. This isn't simply about more words being contained within a word.
 
  • #22
3-word strippers come easily to mind ! (eg : Anna Nicole Smith :biggrin: )
 
  • #23
You're doing it wrong, MK. With each successive move, you have to take only one letter off of the beginning and end of each word. This isn't simply about more words being contained within a word.
Ohhhh :redface: Well I guess I have to rethink my words.
 
  • #24
loseyourname said:
I can think of about a thousand that form three words:

SHINTO - HINT - IN
FLAGS - LAG - A
SHADE - HAD - A
TWINS - WIN - I
FLAWS - LAW - A
SAILS - AIL - I
HAIRY - AIR - I
NEATO - EAT - A
HOARY - OAR - A

Tough to find ones that'll form four words, though. If you could take off two letters from the end and beginning, you could make ASHAMED into UNASHAMEDLY and have one that makes five, but I guess that's outside of the rules.

Nice ones, LYN. I really like SHINTO and HOARY. Bonus points for interesting words! :smile:

Yeah, the four word ones are rare birds! That wonderful site that HRW posted (why have I never seen this before?!??) should be helpful in tracking down more of them.

Tom Mattson said:
APATHY-PATH-AT
SPARE-PAR-A
SLIDE-LID-I
SPORES-PORE-OR
ATHENS (or ATHENA)-THEN-HE
ooh, I really like APATHY!:cool: Must keep this one in mind for future Scrabble matches!

AKG said:
Salient > Alien > Lie > I
Stripes > Tripe > Rip > I
Piraters > Irater > Rate > At

I can't find "Irater" in the dictionary, but I can't find "Angrier" in there either, so "Irater" should be a word.
:!) :!) :!) Wowser!

And I would play IRATER on a Scrabble board any day - I think it's perfectly legal!
 
  • #25
honestrosewater said:
I'll be back later (I'm actually turning a pattern (the deletion of compound constituents) that fell out of the trinonym thread into a little miniresearch project thing and am busy (snoozing) collecting data for it), but I just have to say that this is a perfect example of why I love you, MIH. If I was a teacher, I'd want you as a student, and if I was a student, I'd want you as a teacher, and if I was just about anything else, I'd want you around. You rock SO hard! :biggrin:
That made my whole week. Got to be one of the nicest compliments I've ever received. :smile: Especially since I only created this thread to torment and distract you! :devil: How's the research project going by the way?
unailed -- naile -- ail -- i
e-shearers -- shearer -- heare -- ear -- a
how about emailed-- maile -- ail -- i ?

I wasn't sure about maile at first but it looks legit, though both listings are classified as obsolete.

1. A small piece of money; especially, an English silver half-penny of the time of Henry V.
2. Rent; tribute.

Can a word "expire"?
 
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  • #26
zoobyshoe said:
Something's terribly wrong here: you and I are somehow in total agreement about something.
uh oh. Sign of the end times?
But thanks, Zoob. :smile:

Gokul43201 said:
3-word strippers come easily to mind ! (eg : Anna Nicole Smith )

*Guffaws and slaps knee* :smile:
 
  • #27
MIH: Did you forget "sing" in your original example?
 
  • #28
Math Is Hard said:
My other (not as good) finds are
FLOWERS: 7 letters, 3 words, FLOWERS, LOWER, and OWE.
PROBING: 7 letters, 3 words, PROBING, ROBIN, and OBI.
MOMENT: 6 letters, 3 words, MOMENT, OMEN, and ME
CANONS: 6 letters, 3 words, CANONS, ANON, and NO

For that matter, the following are also words:

Ower
Robing
En
Can, Anons ( http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/ANON ), on

(Sorry, I play scrabble, I can't help it. I'm seeking help, I promise.)
 
  • #29
pattylou said:
MIH: Did you forget "sing" in your original example?
Hi Patty. If you meant in MUSINGS, no, the letters must be stripped from front and back only one pair at a time. That's the game rules.

Thus MUSINGS > USING > SIN > I
 
  • #30
pattylou said:
(Sorry, I play scrabble, I can't help it. I'm seeking help, I promise.)

We need to meet for a game soon! :smile:
And some sushi, too! I haven't forgotten.
 

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