What are the differences between photons and gluons?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Bararontok
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Gluons Photons
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the differences between photons and gluons, exploring their properties, interactions, and the concept of color confinement. Participants examine theoretical aspects, mathematical descriptions, and implications of these particles in quantum field theory.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that while photons and gluons share properties such as 0 mass, 0 electric charge, and a spin of 1, they differ significantly in other aspects, particularly in their interactions.
  • It is mentioned that gluons carry color charge, unlike photons, which only couple to electrically charged particles.
  • Participants discuss that gluons cannot be observed as free particles due to confinement, leading to the detection of jets of hadrons instead.
  • Mathematical descriptions of the interactions of photons and gluons are provided, highlighting differences in their respective Lagrangians and coupling mechanisms.
  • Some participants assert that the photon has properties such as parity and C parity that gluons do not possess, while gluons have color charge, which photons lack.
  • Questions are raised about the nature of gluon confinement, with some proposing that it is related to gluon self-interaction and the potential energy associated with separating quarks.
  • A later reply discusses the existence of specific wave functions for gluons and compares the QCD Lagrangian to the QED Lagrangian, noting key differences.
  • Two approaches to understanding gluon confinement are mentioned: lattice QCD calculations and various theoretical frameworks attempting to explain confinement dynamically.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the properties and implications of photons and gluons, particularly concerning gluon confinement and the nature of their interactions. The discussion remains unresolved with respect to some of the deeper theoretical questions raised.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the complexity of the mathematical descriptions and the unresolved nature of gluon confinement, which relies on various theoretical approaches that have not reached consensus.

Bararontok
Messages
296
Reaction score
0
It is said in particle data sheets that photons and gluons both have 0 mass, 0 electric charge, and a spin of 1. If the two particles both have the same properties, then how is it possible to tell the difference between them? Can a complete table of properties comparing the photon with the gluon be posted in this thread?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
While gluons don't carry electric charge, they do carry color charge, and this makes them very different from photons. The Particle Data Group (PDG) website has extensive tables of particle properties:

http://pdg.lbl.gov/
 
You can also go further, due to confinement you will never measure a free gluon in a detector, instead you will see what is known as a jet which is a spray of hadrons.

You can also differentiate between photons and gluons by what the couple to.

Photons only couple to particles with electric charge (they don't couple to themselves)
Gluons only couple to particles with color (other gluons and quarks)
 
Mathematically the electron and the photon field are described by spinors ψ and 4-vectors Aμ. Their coupling is described by one term in the Dirac Lagrangian:

\mathcal{L}_\text{int} \sim e\bar{\psi}\gamma^\mu A_\mu\psi

The quark and the gluon fields are described by spinors qi and 4-vectors Gμik carrying additional SU(3) indices ik; the gluon field is a '3*3 color matrix'. Their coupling is described by one term in the QCD Lagrangian:

\mathcal{L}_\text{int} \sim g\bar{q}_i\gamma^\mu G_\mu^{ik}q_k

In addition there is a direct self-coupling for gluon fields which does not exist for the photon field
 
So that means that while these two particles possesses some similarities in the values of their properties, they both possesses properties that the other does not, they are both used for different interactions, and they both behave differently.

Additionally, the photon has two properties that the gluon does not, which is the parity and C parity, while the gluon possesses a property that the photon does not which is color charge.

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluon
 
Last edited:
yes, exactly
 
Why are gluons always confined? Why can't one exist independent of a quark system?
 
Color confinement is still an unsolved problem. But our best guess so far is that it's a side effect of gluon self-interaction in the strong-interaction limit. Here's a hand-waving, non-rigorous argument as to why it happens.

When one separates two (anti)quarks/gluons past about 10^(-15) m, the potential energy becomes approximately linearly proportional to the distance, almost like stretching a string. In fact, string theory was first developed to account for the properties of hadron excited states. But if this gluon string gets long enough, it can pull quark-antiquark pairs out of the vacuum and snap.

This accounts for jets of hadrons produced by high-energy collisions. A speeding quark or gluon stretches a gluon string behind it, which repeatedly snaps and makes hadrons.
 
lpetrich said:
Color confinement is still an unsolved problem. But our best guess so far is that it's a side effect of gluon self-interaction in the strong-interaction limit. Here's a hand-waving, non-rigorous argument as to why it happens.

When one separates two (anti)quarks/gluons past about 10^(-15) m, the potential energy becomes approximately linearly proportional to the distance, almost like stretching a string. In fact, string theory was first developed to account for the properties of hadron excited states. But if this gluon string gets long enough, it can pull quark-antiquark pairs out of the vacuum and snap.

This accounts for jets of hadrons produced by high-energy collisions. A speeding quark or gluon stretches a gluon string behind it, which repeatedly snaps and makes hadrons.

That would make sense, but I could have sworn scientists knew better than to put real world meanings like "stretching" in quantum mechanics.
Is there a specific wave function for gluons?
 
  • #10
Specific wave function? Yes. One can write down the QCD Lagrangian. It closely parallels the QED Lagrangian.

The main differences are replacement of charge operators with gauge-symmetry-generator operators and addition of self-interaction terms.
 
  • #11
Bararontok said:
...Additionally, the photon has two properties that the gluon does not, which is the parity and C parity, while the gluon possesses a property that the photon does not which is color charge.

Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluon
The latter article states that gluons have negative intrinsic parity. Surely they also have C-parities too, eg (in the Gell-Mann basis)

C ((r\bar{b} + \bar{r}b)/\sqrt{2}) = (\bar{r}b + r\bar{b})/\sqrt{2} = (+1) (r\bar{b} + \bar{r}b)/\sqrt{2}
 
  • #12
For the gluon confinement there are in principle two approaches.

1) put the QCD lagragian on a lattice and calculate the "effective color potential"; one finds for large radius V(r) ~ r + corrections; this visualizes confinement and provides a very detailed, quantitative description, but unfortunately it does not explain anything

2) try to find a dynamical explanation for confinement; here a couple of approaches have been studies (color-electric Meissner effect, instantons and merons, center symmetry of SU(3), stochastic scattering in color space ~ anderson localization, IR behaviour of the gluon and ghost propagators, ...) but afaik none of these approaches is really convincing
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K