What Are the Implications of Nikodem Poplawski's ECSK Gravity Theory?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Nikodem Poplawski's ECSK gravity theory, which proposes the addition of torsion to General Relativity (GR). Participants explore its implications, particularly regarding black holes that "bounce" and its potential as an alternative to inflation for addressing the flatness and oldness problems in cosmology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express interest in Poplawski's proposal, noting its potential implications for black holes and cosmology.
  • One participant highlights a specific passage from the paper discussing the formation of a new universe inside a black hole, questioning the notion of invisibility and the implications of "occurring after infinite time."
  • This participant raises concerns about the lack of discussion regarding the infall of matter from the 'old universe' to the 'new universe,' suggesting that this aspect is not adequately addressed in the paper.
  • Another participant provides links to the paper and related works, indicating a desire for further exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach consensus on the implications of Poplawski's theory, with ongoing questions and concerns about specific aspects of the model, particularly regarding causal structures and the behavior of matter in relation to black holes.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in the discussion, including the lack of clarity on the causal structure of event horizons and the implications of torsion in the proposed model compared to GR.

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What do people think of Nikodem Poplawski's proposal that adding torsion to GR (in the form of ECSK gravity) leads to, among other things, black holes that "bounce", and an alternative to inflation for the flatness/oldness problem?

Published in Physics Letters B, http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.physletb.2010.09.056 with a non-paywalled abstract at http://xxx.lanl.gov/pdf/1106.4859.pdf, I don't recall seeing it mentioned before on PF, a search finds some discussion but not in this group.
 
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My first comment is on the discussion at the end of p.6, beginning of p.7:

"A massive star, that is causally connected, collapses gravitationally to a black
hole and an event horizon forms. Inside the horizon, spacetime is nonstationary and matter contracts to an extremely
dense, but because of torsion, finite-density state."
...
"After reaching its minimum size, the homogeneous and isotropic universe starts expanding. Such an expansion is not
visible for observers outside the black hole, for whom the horizon’s formation and all subsequent processes occur after
infinite time [22]. The new universe is thus a separate spacetime branch with its own timeline; it can last infinitely
long and grow infinitely large if dark energy is present."

Two things bother me. One is possibly purely linquistic. The invisibility of the proposed re-expansion is obvious. The clause "occurring after infinite time" is problematic for me, unless there is some major geometric difference from GR. In GR, one may easily define simultaneity slices that cross the horizon. My more physical concern to this model of a separate universe is that I don't see anything addressing further infall of matter. At least in GR, absolutely nothing prevents further infall across the horizon that would lead to a flow from the 'old universe' to the 'new unverse'. My initial scan shows nothing about this GR extension that would prohibit this, yet it is not addressed at all.

There is possible connection between the linguistic imprecision and the failure to address this issue.

[Edit: Putting the above more strongly, there is no discussion of the complete causal structure of the EH: the interior has no causal influence on the exterior; however the exterior has continuous causal influence on the interior. The interior sees the external history as running in parallel with the internal history.

I note that this whole observation is related to a possibly speculative discussion in the last section of the paper. The rest of the paper, on cosmology (without trying to answer about 'before the big bang') is untouched by these arguments. ]
 
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