What Are the Monopole and Dipole Moments of a Two Charge System?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the monopole and dipole moments for a system of two point charges, specifically 3q and q, separated by a distance a. Participants are exploring the definitions and calculations of these moments, as well as the potential at large distances in spherical coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to calculate the monopole and dipole moments, questioning the correctness of their calculations and the assumptions made regarding the origin of the dipole moment. There are discussions about the transformation of coordinates and the implications of choosing different origins for the dipole moment.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the calculations and assumptions, while others are seeking clarification on the definitions and conventions used in the context of dipole moments. Multiple interpretations of the problem setup are being explored, particularly regarding the placement of the origin and the resulting calculations.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of a diagram that is not visible to all participants, which may affect the understanding of the problem setup. Additionally, there are references to conventional practices in defining dipole moments that may not be universally agreed upon in this discussion.

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Two point charges 3q and iq are spearated by distance a as in the diagram. Find the monopole, dipole moments and the approximate potential at large (in spherical coords including both dipole and monopole contributions)

monopole moment is sum of charges [itex]3q \hat{k} + qa \hat{k} = q(a+2) \hat{k}[/itex]

dipole moment is (assume that the origin is located half way between the two cahrges

then
[tex]p= 3q \frac{a}{2} \hat{k} + (-q}\frac{a}{2} \hat{k} = 2qa \hat{k}[/tex]

also
[tex]\overline{p} = p + qa\hat{k}[/tex]
[tex]\overline{p} = qa \hat{k}[/tex]
is this correct?

where di i got wrong? with the transofmration of coordinates? With the way i calculated p?? When i calculate the potential the dipole moment will point radially in the z direction hence [itex]\hat{k} = \hat{r} \cos\theta [/tex]<br /> <br /> thank you for your help and responses![/itex]
 
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stunner5000pt said:
Two point charges 3q and iq are spearated by distance a as in the diagram. Find the monopole, dipole moments and the approximate potential at large (in spherical coords including both dipole and monopole contributions)

monopole moment is sum of charges [itex]2q \hat{k} + qa \hat{k} = q(a+2) \hat{k}[/itex]

dipole moment is (assume that the origin is located half way between the two cahrges

then
[tex]p= 3q \frac{a}{2} \hat{k} + (-q}\frac{a}{2} \hat{k} = 2qa \hat{k}[/tex]

also
[tex]\overline{p} = p + qa\hat{k}[/tex]
[tex]\overline{p} = qa \hat{k}[/tex]
is this correct?

where di i got wrong? with the transofmration of coordinates? With the way i calculated p?? When i calculate the potential the dipole moment will point radially in the z direction hence [itex]\hat{k} = \hat{r} \cos\theta [/tex]<br /> <br /> thank you for your help and responses![/itex]
[itex] <br /> 1. You seem to mean q and 2q in the first line. There should be no \hat k and no a in the monopole moment.<br /> 2. The usual convention for a charged object is to pick the origin so that the dipole moment is zero. I have not seen the diagram, so maybe you are told where to pick the origin.[/itex]
 
oops

here is the diagram

pick a zer dipole moment... how in this case
 

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Meir Achuz said:
1. You seem to mean q and 2q in the first line. There should be no \hat k and no a in the monopole moment.
2. The usual convention for a charged object is to pick the origin so that the dipole moment is zero. I have not seen the diagram, so maybe you are told where to pick the origin.

but isn't hte dipole moment a vector?/
 
stunner5000pt said:
here is the diagram

pick a zer dipole moment... how in this case
For your diagram, the charge is 3q-q=2q.
With the origin given at the postionf of the -q charge, the dipole moment is
[tex]{\bf p}=3q{\bf\hat z}[/tex].
 

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