What causes the squiggly orbit and how can it be eliminated?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter mrjoe2
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    2-body Orbit Systems
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of orbits in a three-body system, specifically addressing the causes of irregularities in orbital paths, referred to as "squiggly orbits." Participants explore the gravitational interactions between a central sun-like object and two orbiting bodies, raising questions about the nature of these orbits and the implications of Kepler's laws.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the squiggly nature of the orbit may arise from the gravitational influence of a third body, leading to complex interactions that affect the orbit of the second body.
  • Another participant notes the complications introduced by adding a third body, indicating that the problem becomes significantly more complex due to gravitational radiation.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the squiggly appearance of the orbit could be due to plotting the orbit with the central star fixed, rather than using the barycenter of the system, which could eliminate the squiggles.
  • Questions are raised about the constancy of distance from the sun in planetary orbits, particularly in relation to Kepler's first law and the implications of binding energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the causes of the squiggly orbits, with some attributing it to gravitational interactions and others suggesting a plotting issue. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the nature of these orbits and the implications of Kepler's laws.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexities of three-body interactions and the potential for gravitational radiation to influence orbital dynamics. There are also unresolved questions regarding the conditions under which the distance from the sun can remain constant.

mrjoe2
Messages
37
Reaction score
0
Well, my biggest q, isn't exactly about the 2-body, it's more like 3-body I guess.
What I'm trying to accomplish here is to say that we can not ignore a small third mass orbiting around a sun-like object.

I have the Sun-Like Object and another object (L) orbiting around it, now L is following an ellipse shape because the center Sun object is having a gravitation pull on m1. Now a smaller object (K) further away is also being affected by the gravitational pull by the Sun object but even L has a gravitational pull on K, so that K object is (having 2 gravitational pulls effecting it)?
And this cuases turbulation which is why the ellipse is squiggly?
Does this make any sense or am I to ambiguous?

Another question is: Consider kepler's first law. The planets orbit is an eiplse since it's binding energy is near 0 but not equal to 0. As planets orbit around a sun we can see that the distance from the sun on the planet's position is not constant. Can it be constan is my question? When, how?
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
Replace m1 with L.
mrjoe2 said:
Well, my biggest q, isn't exactly about the 2-body, it's more like 3-body I guess.
What I'm trying to accomplish here is to say that we can not ignore a small third mass orbiting around a sun-like object.

I have the Sun-Like Object and another object (L) orbiting around it, now L is following an ellipse shape because the center Sun object is having a gravitation pull on m1. Now a smaller object (K) further away is also being affected by the gravitational pull by the Sun object but even L has a gravitational pull on K, so that K object is (having 2 gravitational pulls effecting it)?
And this cuases turbulation which is why the ellipse is squiggly?
Does this make any sense or am I to ambiguous?

Another question is: Consider kepler's first law. The planets orbit is an eiplse since it's binding energy is near 0 but not equal to 0. As planets orbit around a sun we can see that the distance from the sun on the planet's position is not constant. Can it be constan is my question? When, how?
 
There are already enough complications with one body in orbit, since both bodies will eventually meet due to gravitational radiation.
Add a third and the problem space is exploding.
 
Last edited:
The reason for your "squiggly ellipse" is because you're probably displaying your orbit with the central star locked to the middle of your diagram, when in reality, it is not still. It orbits the barycenter of the AB pair. If you plot your orbits with respect to the barycenter, the squigglies should go away.

Here is an example. This is a screen shot of a 1 solar mass star being orbited by a 0.5 solar mass star from a distance of 0.1 AU and an eccentricity of 0.2. A more distant massless test particle orbits the pair. With the central star locked in place in the plot, the distant object has the squiggles. But when the plot is centered on the barycenter of the AB pair, it does not:

http://orbitsimulator.com/PF/bc.GIF
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
Replies
17
Views
4K
  • · Replies 86 ·
3
Replies
86
Views
9K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K