What causes the stability and formation of smoke rings and air rings in water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the physics behind the stability and formation of smoke rings in air and air rings in water, focusing on their dynamics, behavior, and the underlying principles that govern their existence. Participants examine both theoretical and observational aspects, including the role of surface tension and vortex dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the stability of smoke rings and air rings, suggesting that some "strange physics law" may govern their behavior, similar to gyroscopic precession.
  • Another participant questions why steam or smoke particles remain confined within the ring and how air rings can be split and rejoined.
  • A participant explains that surface tension plays a significant role in the stability of water rings, preventing air from escaping while also attempting to break the ring into bubbles.
  • It is mentioned that the vortex created in water is gyroscopically stabilized, allowing it to maintain its structure while air is injected into it.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the specific states of the vortex and the dynamics involved, acknowledging that the behavior of these rings is complex and not fully understood.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the mechanisms behind the stability and formation of smoke and air rings, with no consensus reached on the underlying principles or the specifics of vortex dynamics.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the behavior of particles within the rings and the effects of surface tension, which may not be fully explored or defined. The complexity of vortex dynamics is acknowledged but remains unresolved.

jumpjack
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Take a look at these videos:

Smoke rings in air:
http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/etna/etna00/etna0005video2-it.html?id=14

Air rings in water:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT-fctr32pE&feature=related

Second one is really amazing, as it shows two things:
- great stability of the ring, which prevents air from escaping the ring itself for a long time
- possibility to "extract" a ring from another :eek:

I wonder how it is possible. I think some strange physics law apply here, where "strange" means something like the law which makes a spinning top have the axial precession, and which prevents a giroscope from being rotated perpendicularly to its rotation axis.

If you look at "dolphin rings", you can see that, when a ring is cut, two things happen:
-The dolphin bends a part of the rings, just like if it was a solid thing, and brings the edge of the cut to touch a part of the ring; this makes the edge "join" to the ring, thus creating a secondary ring.
-The remaining part of the old big ring remains alive for a bit, moving toward dolphin body, and it eventually disappears.

I think air particles have two combined movements: a rotation around the "ring axis" (a "circular axis" actually), and a rotation around the axis perpendicular to ring's plane.

I'll try to draw a picture...
 
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I hope you can see the image:
[URL]http://penolo.com/sketch/r/rrLW.png[/URL]

Maybe you're also able to edit it using this link:
http://penolo.com/rrLW
 
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so, why do steam/smoke particles remain confined in the "donut"?
And how is it possible an air ring in water can be split and rejoined to a smaller ring?
 
With the water rings, surface tension helps a lot. It prevents air from leaving the vortex. Of course, it also tries to break up the ring into individual bubbles, but that would require breaking up the vortex, which is gyroscopically stabilized. Basically, the vortex is created first, and the air is injected by the dolphin. The centrifugal effect within the vortex basically means that air "rises" towards the core-circle of the vortex, where rotational speed is the lowest.

I do not completely understand the vortex states themselves, but I do know that they tend to have relatively long life-times. That's just something about the dynamics of the gas/fluid, and adding air bubbles or smoke to the gas stream just makes them visible.
 
That second vid is really neat. Thanks for sharing.
 

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