What could be done to help those like him (Cho)?

[Astronuc]

Certainly if Cho was quiet and/or withdrawn, perhaps extremely introverted, he would appear anti-social, and passively so - as opposed to aggressive anti-social behavior.

But then that aggression burst out.

 

[edward]

This guy had all the red flags waving. He had set a dorm room on fire, there was the harassment incident with a psychological evaluation, one teacher had referred him for counseling because she was disturbed by his writings, yet he somehow slipped under the radar.

It is almost as if his situation was fragmented. One person saw this, another person saw that, the Campus police saw something else. No one person saw the whole picture.

 

[light_bulb]

i've never seen people wear sunglasses while in class but i have seen kids wear their 'hoodies' with the hood on all the time while in school and no one seems to say anything, they just let them get more withdrawn, except for the one teacher who started buying weed off of one of the students knowing it wouldn't be a problem.

not knowing how to act in school or around your peers imo almost always stems from problems in the home, once you hit grades k-2 the schoolyard forces you to socialize. if you become an recluse well you know how kids are, it gets magnified and becomes a cycle so the trick becomes keeping that kid in his/her peer group relative to the pecking order of the school. that may not be possable in college where everything is mixed.

 

[Astronuc]

Va. Tech Gunman Seen As Textbook Killer
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9604940

BLACKSBURG, Va. April 19, 2007, 7:28 p.m. ET · In high school, Cho Seung-Hui almost never opened his mouth. When he finally did, his classmates laughed, pointed at him and said: "Go back to China."

As such details of the Virginia Tech shooter's life come out, and experts pore over his sick and twisted writings and his videotaped rant, it is becoming increasingly clear that Cho was almost a textbook case of a school shooter: a painfully awkward, picked-on young man who lashed out with methodical fury at a world he believed was out to get him.

"In virtually every regard, Cho is prototypical of mass killers that I've studied in the past 25 years," said Northeastern University criminal justice professor James Alan Fox, co-author of 16 books on crime. "That doesn't mean, however, that one could have predicted his rampage."

When criminologists and psychologists look at mass murders, Cho fits the themes they see repeatedly: a friendless figure, someone who has been bullied, someone who blames others and is bent on revenge, a careful planner, a male. And someone who sent up warning signs with his strange behavior long in advance.

Among other things, the 23-year-old South Korean immigrant was sent to a psychiatric hospital and pronounced an imminent danger to himself. He was accused of stalking two women and photographing female students in class with his cell phone. And his violence-filled writings were so disturbing he was removed from one class, and professors begged him to get counseling. He rarely looked anyone in the eye and did not even talk to his own roommates.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

He was supposedly severely bullied in high school/middle school
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-cho0419,0,1890146.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

I have also read that he had a really tough life in South Korea. I think that is where most of the rage came from. But he was picked on because he was so withdrawn, maybe he was fairly depressed even during his childhood.

Supposedly when he was in court for stalking one woman a judge gave him the option of going to see a psych, if he had made it mandatory, he would not have been able to purchase the guns. (I am sorry that I cannot provide link, I cannot find the article, if I come across it again I will come back and edit). So maybe that's the key, anyone who is found guilty of stalking or any other really weird behaviour that hints at mental problems should not be able to purchase a gun. I don't see why not.

edit: here's a link to the gun thing I mentioned: It's not the one I was originally talking about but it says the same thing. If the judge had ORDERED him to go get help then he could not have bought the guns http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/gun.laws/

 

[denverdoc]

Thats maybe where Brady should be expanded, anyone ever put on an involuntary detention should be on the list. Let there be measures and means to challenge...but better to be safe than sorry. What the judge is saying, had she placed the involuntary detention order, it woulkd have been. My guess is something like of all the involuntatry commitments i have seen in a variety of settings, less than 5 percent come from the court.

 

[Astronuc]

Questions Keep Coming for Va. Tech Officials
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9709426

Laws Limit Options When a Student Is Mentally Ill
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/19/us/19protocol.html?em&ex=1177214400&en=9e52d5f9ec8197b9&ei=5087

Federal privacy and antidiscrimination laws restrict how universities can deal with students who have mental health problems.

For the most part, universities cannot tell parents about their children’s problems without the student’s consent. They cannot release any information in a student’s medical record without consent. And they cannot put students on involuntary medical leave, just because they develop a serious mental illness.

Nor is knowing when to worry about student behavior, and what action to take, always so clear.

“They can’t really kick someone out because they’re writing papers about weird topics, even if they seem withdrawn and hostile,” said Dr. Richard Kadison, chief of mental health services at Harvard University. “Most state laws are pretty clear: you can only bring students to hospitals if there is imminent risk to themselves or someone else, so universities are in a bit of a bind that way.”

Office for Civil Rights - HIPAA
Medical Privacy - National Standards to Protect the Privacy of Personal Health Information
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/hipaa/

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIPAA

 

[Zenparticle]

Seems to me the key would be to have an a active involved family and friends. No one can tell you what the future holds so saying something like this is preventable is impossible- tho if he had a family who cared or friends who cared who could see the mental illness destroying him someone would have made him get help- Maybe they should do mandatory psychological testing on everyone to screen for hi risk people as well as background and family checks, but even with that there would still be those who slip through the system.

 

[mathwonk]

probably the biggest favor we could have done him wOULD BE to deny him a fast loading handgun.

 

[JasonRox]

probably the biggest favor we could have done him wOULD BE to deny him a fast loading handgun.

He has the right to be armed, so that will never happen.

 

[Astronuc]

He (Cho) has the right to be armed

May be not!

The Federal Gun Control Act, ever since 1968, has prohibited the possession by a person or the sale to a person who is what they call mentally defective. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms wrote a regulation, and that regulation says that that category includes a person who has been found by some kind of official body to be a danger to himself or others.

Cho was found to be a danger to himself or others when he was brought before a magistrate. The magistrate had the option to commit him but found that less restrictive treatment, the outpatient treatment, would be sufficient. Yet even though he wasn't committed, that's sufficient under federal law to bar him for the rest of his life from ever possessing a firearm.

And, in fact, there's a case from the federal district court of Michigan, U.S. v. Vertz, that finds exactly that, that, in a very similar situation, the Federal Gun Control Act did apply and prohibited the person from having a gun.

Now, clearly it would be very helpful if these regulations were better known and disseminated more broadly to the mental health community and to the judges and magistrates who may make these commitments or determinations about a person's danger so that this information does get reported.

Shooter's Purchase of Handguns Raises Questions About Gun Control Laws
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june07/guncontrol_04-20.html
Virginia Tech shooter Seung-Hui Cho's ability to purchase two handguns despite a history of mental illness has raised questions about American gun control laws. Gun control and gun rights advocates discuss the regulations for background checks.

When a person is found to be irresponsible or a danger to him or herself, then the legal system is allowed to deprive that person of certain rights, and more so privileges. For example, a person convicted of drunk driving may have the privilege of driving suspended - but at the discretion of the judge or magistrate. There have been numerous cases where drunk drivers have caused fatal accidents, and one finds that they have had numerous arrests and convictions for DUI. Fortunately, it is less likely now than 2 or 3 decades ago, but it still happens. Sometimes, perhaps often, the legal system is inconsistent.

 

[Zenparticle]

It sure would have helped him to have socialzed more.. But guessing that he couldn't do becuase of his reclusiveness.

Mental Illness in the form of schizophrenia ,often does not show up until right before puberty; when the brain goes through a major change chemically/physically- it happens to everyone, but for those with schizophrenia it means that while their brains were developing something was missing some protein(or something like that) so it is a degenerate brain disease as well as a disorder. They have to take they're medication loyally but its a known fact they will usually begin to feel that they don't need their Medication, stop taking and suffer psychosis of which they could remain permanently. so socialization would have helped but not really prevented

 

[usahockey]

In many states, you are not allowed to purchase any firearm if you've been admitted to any mental health facility within the last few years or so. This would have made it so that Cho could not have purchased a weapon. Still, when a person like this snaps, they would probably find some other way. (simply breaking into anyone of the thousands of gun owner's homes in VA and steal weapons)

They're saying that he even had a "hitlist" of students made out in middle school, and was also made fun of in high school for being a potential "school shooter". It sounds like this guy was developing his ways long before this recent breaking point. The family says they had no idea, I don't buy it...not if he was caught with a "hitlist" in middle school.

 

[Mallignamius]

Controlling his access to weapons would not have mattered. When the rage is boiling, an angry person who wants to kill will find a way. If not guns, then knives, gasoline, homemade explosives, chemical/biological nasties... Lots of information on the Internet, too.

Mental illness or not, when we are bullied we get angry and want to strike back. That bullying is so often ignored by students and staff can only lead us into these dark moments.