What Do Factorials Represent in Sequences?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the representation and understanding of factorials in the context of sequences and limits, particularly focusing on the expression (3)(2)(1) and its implications for different values of n. Participants explore the definition of factorials and their application in mathematical problems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the meaning of (3)(2)(1) in the context of factorials and whether it relates to specific values of n.
  • Another participant explains that (3)(2)(1) represents the last terms in a factorial and provides an example using n = 3, but does not clarify how this applies to other values of n.
  • A participant questions whether (3)(2)(1) will always be present for any n, expressing uncertainty about how it relates to the expression (2n - 1).
  • Another participant clarifies the definition of factorial, noting that it is defined for nonnegative integers and mentions the existence of other definitions involving the gamma function.
  • One participant points out that even for small values of n, the factorial notation includes terms that may not be present, indicating that they are omitted if not applicable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the interpretation of (3)(2)(1) or its relevance to different values of n. There are multiple viewpoints regarding the definition and application of factorials, leading to ongoing confusion and clarification efforts.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the need for a deeper understanding of factorials and their definitions, including the potential use of the gamma function for non-integer values. The discussion reflects varying levels of familiarity with the concept of factorials.

rcmango
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Hi, I was just looking at this problem with sequences and I was having a question about factorials.

I understand that the factorials need to get smaller.

I was just wondering what is the (3)(2)(1) in the problem symbolizing?
Just that it will eventually reach the end? and what numbers are 3 2 1?
is it 3n? or -3?

just getting confused here.

Its only half the problem, but I understand what needs to be done for the sequence, just the factorial part was the problem.

heres the pic:
http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=26456876rm5.jpg

I appreciate the help.
 
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Those are the last terms in a factorial... for example let n = 3 then you have have

(2*3 - 1)* (2*3 - 2) * 3 * 2 *1 = 5*4*3*2*1 = 5! = 120

Are you familiar with what factorial is?

Now pick n = 10, 100, 2482842724742824, etc.

Notice anything?

Also this isn't really a sequence it's just a limit as n approaches infinity of (2n-1)! it seems.
 
I guess I'm getting confused by the (3)(2)(1)

is that always going to be there for any n we use? like 3 or 10?

not sure how it will ever reach 3 2 1 if 2*anything -1 is never 3 2 or 1.

confused on this part.
 
Yes that's why I asked if you knew the definition of factorial i.e. n! = n*(n-1)*...*1. This definition of factorial works only for nonnegative integers where 0! = 1 by definition. There are other definitions of factorial which allow, for example, factorial of a rational number i.e. (1/2)! but that requires the gamma function I believe. Check out wikipedia for more information.
 
Even if n happens to be, say, 1, in which case 2n - 1 = 1, it's conventional to write (2n - 1)(2n - 2)(2n - 3)...(3)(2)(1) for the (more formal) [itex]\prod_{i=1}^{2n-1} i[/itex] (and it's written (2n - 1)! with the factorial notation). If n happens to be too small to fit the factors such as 3 or 2, then they're just omitted.
 

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