What exactly happens when the Schwarzschild radial r is....

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the nature of the Schwarzschild radial coordinate in relation to black holes, specifically addressing the implications of a radial value of zero. The Schwarzschild solution arises from the Einstein field equations, and while it suggests that non-rotating black holes have a singularity with zero radius, rotating black holes are described as having a circular ring singularity with zero volume. The conversation highlights the limitations of general relativity in accurately describing singularities and emphasizes the need for a quantum theory of gravity. Recent advancements, such as the LIGO gravitational wave detections, may provide new insights into black hole behavior and the nature of singularities.

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  • Understanding of the Einstein field equations
  • Familiarity with the concept of black holes and singularities
  • Knowledge of the Schwarzschild solution and its implications
  • Basic grasp of gravitational wave detection technology, specifically LIGO
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  • Research the implications of the Kretschmann scalar in general relativity
  • Explore the differences between rotating and non-rotating black holes
  • Study the latest findings from LIGO regarding black hole mergers
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I know black holes are not that well understood but if someone can explain this I'd be grateful.

Please correct me if I have anything wrong, I don't know much about this.

The Schwarzschild solution of
99e58e0821a13a8718eb62e0850f17da.png
comes from the Einstein field equation
905beb4fa49f197bdd39e1489762a7e2.png


I think I have that right. Now I don't understand any of that stuff and I'm not really interested in how it's solved but I did notice one thing that seems to suggest that actually dividing by 0 is in fact possible, in the right conditions.

What exactly happens when the Schwarzschild radial
b5999893bf4a5c049160e2413fc846fc.png
is exactly 0? Dividing by 0 isn't allowed... Or is it?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the singularity, is it actually truly dimensionless and the radial is literally 0, or is it just incredibly close to 0?

Or the more likely explanation is I'm an idiot and don't understand what I'm talking about
 
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It is expected that general relativity cannot accurately describe what is going on "at the singularity" - and that this is not actually a singularity. We'll probably need a combination of GR with quantum field theory to solve this puzzle. We cannot observe it...
 
Istegosaurus said:
I know black holes are not that well understood but if someone can explain this I'd be grateful.

Please correct me if I have anything wrong, I don't know much about this.

The Schwarzschild solution of
99e58e0821a13a8718eb62e0850f17da.png
comes from the Einstein field equation
905beb4fa49f197bdd39e1489762a7e2.png


I think I have that right. Now I don't understand any of that stuff and I'm not really interested in how it's solved but I did notice one thing that seems to suggest that actually dividing by 0 is in fact possible, in the right conditions.

What exactly happens when the Schwarzschild radial
b5999893bf4a5c049160e2413fc846fc.png
is exactly 0? Dividing by 0 isn't allowed... Or is it?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the singularity, is it actually truly dimensionless and the radial is literally 0, or is it just incredibly close to 0?

Or the more likely explanation is I'm an idiot and don't understand what I'm talking about

This question is a little confusing. The Schwarzschild radius is actually very simple - it's just:

1f6ea50b461ed41da74cd3bb07ad20ee18f313bb.png


And that just defines the event horizon.

The equation you cited is called the Kretschmann scalar:

K =
99e58e0821a13a8718eb62e0850f17da.png


Just to be clear, all non-rotating black hole singularities are considered to have zero radius, but most if not all black holes are rotating so they describe the singularity as a circular ring with zero volume. And like mfb said, this description is considered to be a placeholder: a black hole is a quantum object and until we have a quantum theory of gravity there's no way to know the precise nature of the singularity. I'd imagine that at the very least there's some "fuzziness" around the singularity because the position of anything at the quantum scale has some intrinsic level of uncertainly.

The good news is that last year the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatories (aka LIGO) picked up two signals of gravitational waves, generated by pairs of black holes coalescing into one, and the properties of that kind of signal can give us new insight into what's going on inside the event horizon of a black hole, because the "ringdown" of the collision will tell us something about the process of the two singularities merging. Perhaps sufficient improvements in our gravitational wave detectors will even help us arrive at a unified theory of gravitation and quantum mechanics.

Even with the fairly low-resolution gravitational wave signals we have so far, there seem to be questions emerging about the GR model of black holes that not only pertain to the singularity, but perhaps to the event horizon as well:
http://www.nature.com/news/ligo-black-hole-echoes-hint-at-general-relativity-breakdown-1.21135
 
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