What happends when you cut something in half?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the implications of cutting a material, specifically a sheet of paper, in half, focusing on the atomic and molecular interactions involved. Participants examine the nature of bonds between atoms and the energy required to break these bonds, touching on the intersections of physics, chemistry, and engineering.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that cutting a sheet of paper involves breaking bonds between atoms, specifically the electromagnetic interactions between outer shell electrons.
  • Others argue that the act of cutting paper is not strictly a chemical process, questioning the relevance of chemical bonds in this context.
  • A participant notes that paper is composed of cellulose fibers, and cutting it tears apart the bonds between adjacent sugar molecules, exposing broken bonds to the environment.
  • It is suggested that the energy required to tear a material can be calculated based on bond strength and fiber density, implying that cutting or tearing involves a chemical process.
  • Some participants discuss the role of intertwined carbohydrate chains and the potential for cross bonds to form between them, raising questions about whether these bonds need to be broken for the chains to separate.
  • One participant emphasizes that energy must be provided to escape the attraction of bonds, framing the breaking of bonds as a process of overcoming local energy minima.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether cutting paper is a chemical process and the nature of the bonds involved. There is no consensus on the role of chemistry in this physical action, and multiple competing perspectives remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of defining the boundaries between physics and chemistry, particularly in the context of material properties and interactions. Assumptions about the nature of bonds and the energy required to break them are not fully resolved.

epislon58
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What happends to atoms when you cut something in half, say a sheet of paper. In a solid, atoms are packed tightly, so I was curious and wondering of this is even a valid question.
 
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Bonds (electromagnetic interaction between outer shell electrons) between atoms break.
 
ZombieFeynman said:
Bonds (electromagnetic interaction between outer shell electrons) between atoms break.

I doubt cutting a piece of paper in half is chemistry.

epislon58 said:
What happends to atoms when you cut something in half, say a sheet of paper. In a solid, atoms are packed tightly, so I was curious and wondering of this is even a valid question.

nevermind. you're breaking and untangling these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycosidic_bond
 
'roidbreaker said:
I doubt cutting a piece of paper in half is chemistry.



nevermind. you're breaking and untangling these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycosidic_bond

You can reason this out without having to consider fancifully named bonds on some wiki page. There are four fundamental forces. Gravity is far too weak to hold any small object like paper together. The purpose of the weak nuclear force is to mainly mediate certain radioactive decay. It is also too weak to hold paper together. The strong nuclear force is too short ranged. Weve found the culprit! Electromagnetism! Now it is easy to convince yourself that paper is held together by bonds between atoms just like most solids. If the paper comes apart then, it must be because these bonds break.
 
Paper is a sheet of cellulose fibres. Each cellulose molecule is a long polymerised chain of sugars. When you cut paper you tear apart the bonds between adjacent sugars and expose the broken bonds on both sides of the tear to the environment. It is highly probable that some available reactive chemical, such as water, will satisfy the available bonds and so prevent the polymer chains joining up again.

The energy you need to tear a material can be calculated from the bond strength in the polymer and the density of the fibres. So when you cut or tear a material you are performing chemistry. You are using energy to break chemical bonds and then allowing them to react again with their environment.

This subject straddles the twilight zone between Physics, Chemistry and Engineering.
Your particular view will be determined by your viewpoint.
 
ZombieFeynman said:
Electromagnetism! Now it is easy to convince yourself that paper is held together by bonds between atoms just like most solids. If the paper comes apart then, it must be because these bonds break.

These bonds could be intertwined carbohydrate chains that get untangled, no? Yes, electromagnetic potential, but it doesn't necessarily have to be broken. Does it?
 
It takes energy and intelligence to untangle chains.

When two chains lie against each other, some cross bonds form between the chains. It takes only a few of these cross links to exceed the strength of one chain. If there were no bonds between the chains then there would be no friction and the chains would simply slide apart.

A bond can be seen as an attraction to a situation of local minimum energy. To escape that attraction energy must be provided. That breaks the interrelationship and therefore the bond.
 
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