What happens when tidal power runs out?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of harvesting tidal power on the Moon's orbit and Earth's rotation. Participants explore the long-term effects of tidal energy extraction, the concept of tidal locking, and the timescales involved in these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that tidal power plants add resistance to water motion, potentially leading to a slight increase in tidal braking, which could affect the Moon's orbit.
  • Others argue that the impact of tidal power plants on the Moon's orbit is minuscule compared to natural tidal forces and that full tidal locking is not feasible due to solar tidal forces.
  • A participant proposes estimating human energy consumption from tidal power to understand its impact on Earth's rotation.
  • There are varying estimates on the timescale for significant changes, with some suggesting "zillions of years" while others provide a more specific estimate of around 390 million years.
  • One participant humorously notes that even the shorter estimate is not a concern for humanity's future.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of tidal power's impact on the Moon's orbit and Earth's rotation, with no consensus on the practical implications or the exact timescales involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the efficiency of tidal power plants and the specific calculations related to energy consumption and tidal braking effects.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in renewable energy, astrophysics, and the long-term dynamics of Earth-Moon interactions may find this discussion relevant.

Simoyd
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So tidal power plants are a thing. They harvest the energy from water moving around. That energy comes from somewhere, specifically the moon, right? So does harvesting tidal power (very very very) slowly degrade the moon's orbit? Does liquid's existence on Earth deteriorate the orbit to begin with? I mean, perpetual energy is not a thing, right, so the system has to deteriorate somehow... How does a tidal energy system deteriorate? How long would that take?
 
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By adding a tidal power-harvesting plant you're effectively adding extra resistance to the motion of water, which leads to a tiny bit more efficient tidal braking - the slowing down of Earth's rotation and a recession of Moon's orbit. The flow of water is more obstructed, so it does a bit better job at dragging on the surface.

This is, however, a minuscule amount when compared to the braking the regular motion of water exerts due to the way the ocean beds and continents are structured, which in turn is not enough to tidally lock (i.e. deplete the potential for extracting tidal energy) the Earth to the Moon over the lifetime of the Sun.

Additionally, even in principle, full tidal lock of Earth and Moon is not possible, as at some point tidal forces from the Sun would take over, disrupting the system. That is, you can't have a situation where our planet is locked both to the Sun and the Moon, so some tidal interaction is ensured for as long as the Moon remains in the system as a freely orbiting body.
There will be a gradual reduction in efficiency of tidal power as the Moon recedes and Earth slows its rotation, though. But again, gradual enough so as not to be a practical worry for millions of years, if ever at all.

If you're still concerned about the effect of human activities on the process, I suggest the following exercise: estimate the current energy consumption of the human race, assume it's all produced by tidal power plants at typical efficiency, and compare it to the energy required to completely stop the rotation of the Earth (which is an o.k. approximation of a tidal lock).
 
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We switch back to coal.
 
Simoyd said:
How long would that take?
zillions of years, nothing mankind has to worry about
 
Last edited:
davenn said:
zillions of years, nothing mankind has to worry about
About 390 million years, actually.
 
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D H said:
About 390 million years, actually.

not as long as I expected, but mankind isn't likely to be around to worry about it :wink:Dave
 

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